[Imc-sydney] Banned by German IndyMedia

[diet simon]

Dear Cam,

I know definitely to have been banned off the German list. Last time I tried 
I still got into the Resolve list. The way I read their postings they will 
attempt to ban me as well from lists other than their own, but I can't be 
sure of that. I did notice that getting through to our list involved a 
hold-up in the form of "moderator checking...will let you know" but I assume 
that can't be their doing.

> I believe IMC Germany is well within their rights to set their own
> editorial policy and practice it. They have stated that they only want
> original pieces written by the submitter. You have violated that policy
> by posting works you haven't written. It seem straight forward to me.

To me that looks like any group can set up an IMC and do anything they like 
with it without accountability. To me that violates to the core the IMC 
spirit of solidarity, struggling together to improve the world, fighting the 
censorship of the mainstream media, etc, all the things the movement was set 
up for. It makes an IMC the untouchable private property of any group of any 
persuasion, using our precious label.

> Has IMC Germany hidden any stories that are your original work (and do
> they still remain hidden) ?

It has been patchy. There have been a couple of instances of "really 
hidden", i.e. taken off the site, made invisible, but I can't remember the 
specifics. The latest dispute was about my Burma story sourced on Avaaz. 
http://de.indymedia.org/2008/02/208182.shtml is visible but has their "This 
is not what we want" stamp across the top, although I wrote it, sourcing on 
an AVAAZ release. Yet a pure Avaaz release, editorially untouched by me, I 
only posted it, was allowed up on their site. It is no longer there. We 
still have it at 
http://sydney.indymedia.org.au/story/avaaz-ad-helped-shift-japan-climatre-change. 
This kind of inconsistency happens there all the time.

> Has IMC Germany engaged in selective hiding. That is, have they allowed
> other non-original work to remain on the newswire while yours was hidden?

Yes, they have been selective. I have seen lots of non-original work left 
standing, often with the "this is not what we want" stamp over the top of 
it, sometimes without.

One of their rules is that calls to demos and such should only be published 
in an events calendar. I pointed out that the call for a demo in Hamburg was 
left on the open pages, and argued that that's how it should be. After that 
it got the "this is not what we want stamp". Inconsistent, inconsistent, 
inconsistent. After that their list bounced me.

It all seems to depend on the whims of whoever is moderating at the time. 
Not fair to contributors.

> I would suggest the action to take now (if you haven't already) would be
> to start a page on the global wiki.

I don't know what that is. I don't know how to do that. Can anyone guide me 
through the process?

> - email the resolve list saying that you will no longer be posting
> regularly to the list, and that your grievances can be found at the wiki
> page you set up.

I will do that.

> I really don't think you have a strong case for disaffiliation, so I see
> no point in any further confrontations.

I don't really want disaffiliation, I wanted change. But it seems impossible 
to achieve. Which makes me worry about our movement in general. How many 
other dictatorial IMCs are there out there? If we can't be radical democrats 
amongst ourselves, how credible are we screaming for democracy in the real 
world?

Regards,

Diet


> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Can I expect backing? (diet simon)
>   2. Re: Can I expect backing? (Cameron Gregg)
>
> The German IndyMedia group are about to launch an action to ban me off IMC
> discussion lists. I have been in dispute with them over their censorship.
> Can I expect backing from any of you?
>
> Diet
>

>>
>
> Which lists in particular? Or is it a blanket ban for all international
> lists?
>
> I don't support the ban as general principle, and I will have to wait to
> see the actual proposal before I can confirm absolute non-support, but...
>
> I am on the resolve list where I see most of your complaints have been
> directed. I don't think it's going to achieve anything to continue
> posting a complaint every time one of your stories is hidden. It's been
> the same routine for some months now with no resolution. People are now
> aware of your grievances, and the nature that it is ongoing. I don't
> think that continuing this pattern will benefit you, indeed it seems it
> has inflamed IMC Germany to the point they wish to ban you.
>
>
> I believe IMC Germany is well within their rights to set their own
> editorial policy and practice it. They have stated that they only want
> original pieces written by the submitter. You have violated that policy
> by posting works you haven't written. It seem straight forward to me.
>
> 2 Questions:
>
> Has IMC Germany hidden any stories that are your original work (and do
> they still remain hidden) ?
>
> Has IMC Germany engaged in selective hiding. That is, have they allowed
> other non-original work to remain on the newswire while yours was hidden?
>
>
> I would suggest the action to take now (if you haven't already) would be
> to start a page on the global wiki. Document each time one of your
> stories is hidden (and remains hidden). Provide links to the story and
> to any discussion on the IMC Germany lists about it. When I say 'your
> stories' I am referring to ones you have written. I do not think there
> is any real point in attacking them on their editorial policy. The point
> has been made already on global lists, I don't recall any other person
> agreeing with your criticism that their editorial policy violates
> indymedia principles.
>
> I also think that some of the language you have used on the resolve list
> is inappropriate. As an example:
>
> ""now what?" - Change your high-handed, dictatorial, arrogant,
> exclusionist, school-masterly,impregnable, anonymously powerful,
> intellectual apartheid attitudes.  You don't need them."
>
> This kind of language is inflammatory, even if you feel it is correct. I
> can see the point has come where both you and Germany IMC are inflamed.
> Conflicts at this level don't tend to pan out well unless someone backs
> down. I would suggest, as you have not garnered international support,
> that you be the one that backs down.
>
>
> I would suggest the following actions be taken by you:
>
> - start a wiki page to document your grievances.
> - stop using inappropriate language towards other IMC comrades.
> - email the resolve list saying that you will no longer be posting
> regularly to the list, and that your grievances can be found at the wiki
> page you set up.
> - apologise to anyone you think you have used inappropriate language to.
>
> Basically I think you have to admit defeat and declare that you have no
> interest at escalating the matter any further.
>
> I really don't think you have a strong case for disaffiliation, so I see
> no point in any further confrontations.
>
>
> Cameron