[Imc-sydney] Re: Leave Germany imc alone!

Mon Dec 17 06:20:09 UTC 2007

Mick,

don't try to malign me.

I am "associated" with Sydney IMC almost exclusively as a fairly regular contributor of reports. I have some editing rights which I don't even know how to use properly. I have had no part of your stoush with them and want no part of it.

If you knew what a gentle soul I am you would laugh with me about your slur that I'm out to "bully imcs". The one and only IMC I have a stoush with is Germany and I certainly feel I "have a right to" that because they are the ones who bully.

They bully people who may not be able to write for themselves out of political participation by refusing to publish any calls for action, petitions to sign, etc. They breach the IMC spirit and for that little old me, just on my lonesome, "bullies" them and gets stick even from one of the Sydney editors. Germany want to run their IMC site as a journalism school and that's not what IMC is about, as far as I know.

I think you and I are getting nowhere, so let's both of us stop wasting each other's time.

Regards,

Diet

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: mick lambe PARIAH 
  To: diet_simon at bigpond.com ; skep at riseup.net ; imc-communication at lists.indymedia.org ; resolve at lists.indymedia.org ; ng at immerda.ch ; petros newimc ; Changeling_au_2004 at yahoo.com.au 
  Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 1:40 PM
  Subject: Re: Leave Germany imc alone!

  http://pariahnt.org/news

  You claimed to be associated with sydney indymedia and like them seek to bully imcs - when you have no right to

  You mob got away with too much for too long - and we have every right to publicise your abuses of our Human Rights

  It's what we do - http://onemiledam.net

  http://pariahnt.tripod.com

  the material on http://www.pariahnt.org/Oz-indymedia/

  is backed up with documentation and was sent to the offending parties for "fact checking" prior to publication

  Can't do better than that Diet

  If you find any factual discrepancies please let me know

  they will be removed or corrected immediately

  mick

  ------------------------------------------

  diet simon <diet_simon at bigpond.com> wrote:
    Mick,

    Sydney does not back me in this criticism of IMC Germany, I have made that quite clear. I am not acting on their behalf. And if you knew the full story you would not dismiss what I'm saying as crap.

    The people you name are not my 'mates', I don't know any of them except online, we just share this work, sometimes with different and even conflicting takes on things. But we don't abuse each other like I see you doing here.

    What is your site, please?

    Regards,

    Diet
      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: mick lambe PARIAH 
      To: diet simon ; resolve at lists.indymedia.org 
      Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 2:25 AM
      Subject: Leave Germany imc alone!

      darwin imc have never been disaffiliatd

      nor have we ever had a charge leveled against us that made it past scrutiny (new-imc) 

      What Nigel (changeling of Melbourne indymedia) said - Hate responses

      Your lies are cheap - like the tactics sydney imc used to attack innocent people

      Sydney indymedia fail to discredit darwin imc

      Stacy Scheff exploiting Oz indymedia
      Sydney.indymedia's long-term hate campaign
      Cameron Greggs - denial and autocr

      racist crap from elitist do-nothing cowards - years of your HATE posts - because you can't stand people who act autonomously

      Leave germany inc alone 

      Our affiliated imc  will- block any attempt by these liars and cheap thugs

      Send people to my home to bash me?

      And threaten my friends?

      You gutless maggots

      ASIO and the Federal Police must love you

      ____________________________________________

      14 arrests and imprisonments in the past 5 years - for activism - East Timor, drug-users and anti-racism - me

      While you mob trashed everything we did and encouraged the HATE and violence against myself and anyone I associated with

      you scum can't even explain your actions as you are supposed to under the POU - just more censorship and lies on your lists

      Diet's crap about Germany imc is nothing compared tp what was dished out to us by his mates at Sydney and Melb'

      I will never forgive your HATRED and LIES

      _____________________________

      diet simon <diet_simon at bigpond.com> wrote: 
        Dear Nick, Tony, andrés, Takver
        and all others who have given this some attention,
        I regret that I have invaded your time when your energy is more usefully and more happily put into other activity. I also wish I didn't have to fight this fight.
        But I just cannot imagine that it is in the IMC spirit to lock people out of political participation, and be that merely through the opportunity to join a petition or some such. Not everyone can write. One huge reason for that is lack of the education needed to be able to write. Especially people in that predicament should be offered opportunities to express their will. That is one of my major concerns in this dispute.
        The other major concern is that "people movements" of various kinds but of the type of persuasion that fits like hand-in-glove with the IMC spirit as I perceive it, offer for publication ideas and appeals that I assume most Indy users would want to know about. I certainly see them posted on many IMC's, including my own Sydney one. On IndyGermany they are banned. 
        I can't see how that still falls within the "autonomy" Tony cites. If it does, that should be thrown open to debate movement-wide. I see it as obstructing our collective international strength on issues like climate change, on which, to cite only the latest example, Avaaz has campaigned very effectively for signatures and by lobbying in Bali itself, but was "hidden" by IndyGermany.
        Moreover, their handling is higgledy-piggledy. What is OK one day, is not OK another day. It seems to vary with whoever's watch it is. Before they got pissed off with me, some members admitted to me that they are in hot dispute amongst themselves over what to hide or not to hide. So, as a contributor, you get pot luck. You might spend time, passion and energy doing a story only to run into the "wrong" team member on duty. You never know where you are with them.
        Thank you Nick for doing the Spanish.
        I can't imagine any IMC backing me as a collective. Sydney came out of the fight to disaffiliate Darwin bruised and still hated by others in the movement and one of my colleagues there advised that my energy would be better applied to other things than fighting this fight. Takver also doesn't agree with me on this. For other groups it must be too far removed from their own concerns to bother. Which leaves me on my own. But I'm about to chuck it in, having learnt the valuable lesson that nothing is so hard to change as power structures in voluntary organisations. So, Nick, I wouldn't know where to start "to get organized".  Moreover, starting another IMC in the same area is divisive, I think. 

        Tony,  I have not "asked straight away for disaffiliation" on lists. I have pleaded directly with IMC Germany for years and got nowhere. They are intransigent. And it is not enough to be "a very hard working network" - you can be working very hard on the wrong things. I think I have been respectful, angry, yes, but not personally abusive, but then, it's always in the eyes of the beholder, isn't it?
        andrés, thank you for your suggestion to continue this conversation in imc-communication. I have tried to subscribe to other lists but seem to get bounced. As I'm not particularly computer-savvy, I may be doing something wrong technically. But I'll try again. Can you help?
        Takver, thanks for your input. Let me hasten to reiterate that at no point did I presume to speak for Sydney, lest that impression had taken hold anywhere. I think I've put together "a good case, well documented with good background information" which is too big for the lists to take in, so if anyone wants the full load, I'll email it to them - unfortunately only in English. My written German isn't good enough and I have no other language.
        Takver, you cannot know Germany IMC as well as I do so your disagreement with my criticism of them is uninformed. It is not "media laziness" to post things from groups fighting e.g. nuclear power, rain forest destruction, climate destruction, etc, who don't get exposure in the mainstream media. Carrying these struggles forward is IndyMedias' mission.  

        I like your idea of "an independent moderator", but who and where is such a person? If "the Network Principles of Unity" allow obstructionism of international joint action then those principles have derailed somewhere along the track.

        Thanks all for answering.
        Diet
        _______________________________________________
        Resolve mailing list
        Resolve at lists.indymedia.org
        http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/listinfo/resolve

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
      Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

      No virus found in this incoming message.
      Checked by AVG Free Edition. 
      Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.17.2/1185 - Release Date: 15/12/2007 12:00 PM

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  No virus found in this incoming message.
  Checked by AVG Free Edition. 
  Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.17.4/1187 - Release Date: 16/12/2007 11:36 AM
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.indymedia.org.au/pipermail/imc-sydney/attachments/20071217/33449ba7/attachment.htm 