[Imc-oceania] Log of Oceania IRC meeting held 2007-06-17

[takver]

Find attached log of Oceania IRC meeting and discussion held 2007-06-17

bcc:smushcapitalism
-- 
in solidarity
Takver

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**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Jun 17 19:13:55 2007

Jun 17 19:15:47 Takver	sorry can't attend meeting - I shall log & read later 
Jun 17 19:16:08 *	uriohau (uriohau at che.indymedia.org) has joined #oceania
Jun 17 19:16:32 smush	hey uriohau!
Jun 17 19:17:06 *	kenny (kenny at che.indymedia.org) has joined #oceania
Jun 17 19:19:43 smush	Kameron, can u log this chat too? i dont know how that worls
Jun 17 19:19:46 smush	*works
Jun 17 19:19:58 Kameron	yeah i've got logging on
Jun 17 19:20:11 smush	sweet
Jun 17 19:20:11 Kameron	should be able to set it up in your IRC client preferences
Jun 17 19:20:25 kenny	hello from  Wellington
Jun 17 19:20:45 smush	yay! i was wondering who kenny was ;)
Jun 17 19:21:54 kenny	where are you today smush?
Jun 17 19:22:24 smush	i'm in switzerland at the moment. a bit hung-over and not enough sleep in my life at the moment
Jun 17 19:22:50 kenny	ok
Jun 17 19:23:13 smush	should we wait another couple of mins and start with a round if intros to see who is keen to have a bit of chat?
Jun 17 19:23:15 *	uriohau has quit (Quit: CGI:IRC (EOF))
Jun 17 19:23:41 kenny	ok
Jun 17 19:24:18 *	uriohau (uriohau at che.indymedia.org) has joined #oceania
Jun 17 19:25:53 uriohau	kia ora
Jun 17 19:26:04 kenny	Danyl sent apologies in an email
Jun 17 19:27:21 smush	hey uriohau, is it all working allright for you?
Jun 17 19:27:56 uriohau	yeah it is, good support from Camp Soveirnty crew, going as hard as a mum can
Jun 17 19:28:29 uriohau	looking forward to ding thing in the Pi & maori communities in melbounre
Jun 17 19:29:07 smush	cool, should we start with a round of intros? maybe we can use ### to say that we've finished talking and it can be someone else's turn? who'll start? i nominate kenny ;=
Jun 17 19:29:09 smush	)
Jun 17 19:30:13 kenny	Ok - Ken from Wellington Indymedia collective, on Aotearoa IMC editorial collective, AIM rep on IMC finance collective
Jun 17 19:31:05 kenny	###
Jun 17 19:31:40 anarchafairy	um, how does a round work without a circle?
Jun 17 19:32:23 anarchafairy	smush do you want to facilitate?
Jun 17 19:32:52 smush	kia ora, smush, wellington indymedia, aotearoa imc editorial collective, imc switzerland (german part). i've been writing stuff mainly about indigenous resistance in aotearoa and looking into what happens in the pacific and went to tonga last year. ###
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Jun 17 19:33:48 smush	i can facilitate a bit, we'll see how we go i reckon, i dunno who excatly is participating. why don't all people who want to participate in the chat intro themselves now?##
Jun 17 19:34:15 anarchafairy	hiya, I'm Torrance from Wellington, member of AIMC, am (a lazy) editor, involved in some tech stuff such as getting a drupal dev site going, etc., blah ###
Jun 17 19:34:42 uriohau	kia ora, uriohau teni, Kulin nations grassroots anti Collnial, Anti Capitalist
Jun 17 19:36:24 Kameron	I am Cameron from Sydney Indymedia and Coffs Coast Indymedia (coffscoastimc.org). I do tech, editorial, outreach, whatevers needed ###
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Jun 17 19:39:02 smush	cool, anybody else? stacy, shayne, scott, psyops, naught101, gdm?
Jun 17 19:39:48 smush	we have apoligies from strypey (imc wellington), kimk (brisbane, cliamte imc), takver (imc melbourne)###
Jun 17 19:40:55 *	Nigel (Nigel at che.indymedia.org) has joined #oceania
Jun 17 19:41:09 smush	hey nigel, u here for the meeting?
Jun 17 19:41:47 Nigel	Yeah, thought I'd drop by!
Jun 17 19:41:51 smush	otherwise, we're small but lets get started! say it loud !
Jun 17 19:42:24 smush	cool nigel, we just did a 'round' of intros. the people participating are anarchafairy, kenny, uriohau and kameron.
Jun 17 19:42:43 smush	### (nigel, that means that you finished)
Jun 17 19:43:16 Nigel	Hi All - Nigel from MIM. Not a regular IRC user ###
Jun 17 19:43:41 kenny	Hi Nigel
Jun 17 19:44:05 uriohau	kis ora kenny###
Jun 17 19:44:09 Nigel	Hi Kenny. 
Jun 17 19:44:55 smush	cool, maybe someone wants to kick us off with having a rant? can i introduce the @ - use it when u want to speak. cool?
Jun 17 19:45:15 anarchafairy	@
Jun 17 19:45:21 smush	go anarchafairy ;)
Jun 17 19:45:27 anarchafairy	 it's a pity takver isn't here since he was quite keen on the oceania proposal
Jun 17 19:45:29 anarchafairy	###
Jun 17 19:45:43 anarchafairy	@ or she ??  or it... ###
Jun 17 19:46:06 smush	yeah, he's got a kid to look after but was very keen for the discussion ###
Jun 17 19:46:50 uriohau	sad to see the end of publishing in mebourne###
Jun 17 19:47:07 Nigel	He's logging it to read later###
Jun 17 19:47:31 kenny	@
Jun 17 19:47:36 smush	go kenny!
Jun 17 19:47:55 kenny	Do you want to hear Danyl's proposal? He sent it by email.##
Jun 17 19:48:12 smush	i reckon that be cool. can u summarise it kenny?###
Jun 17 19:48:33 kenny	Can I cut and paste the relevant paragraph?##
Jun 17 19:48:36 anarchafairy	So the proposal we were throwing around was to have a single  
Jun 17 19:48:36 anarchafairy	IndyDrupal 'back-end' engine dunning on one server (eg Axxs), which is  
Jun 17 19:48:36 anarchafairy	capable of driving multiple 'front-end' sites, one for each country or  
Jun 17 19:48:36 anarchafairy	city capable of maintaining an editorial collective. Each front-end  
Jun 17 19:48:36 anarchafairy	site could have its own appearance and conguration. So Aotearoa IMC  
Jun 17 19:48:37 anarchafairy	would retain its own separate site with our choice of modules and  
Jun 17 19:48:38 anarchafairy	options and our tech volunteers would work as part of an Oceania tech  
Jun 17 19:48:40 anarchafairy	collective helping to maintain the engine on the server and looking  
Jun 17 19:48:42 anarchafairy	after the guts of our front-end. Hope that makes sense.
Jun 17 19:48:46 anarchafairy	(that was the main paragraph??)
Jun 17 19:48:54 kenny	yup
Jun 17 19:48:56 smush	thanks anarchafairy
Jun 17 19:49:14 shayne	whats the scope of this proposal in terms of superceding citys
Jun 17 19:49:33 anarchafairy	wat do u mean?
Jun 17 19:49:49 shayne	the reason I say is, Im nervous about readers (and perhaps collectives) in non australian citys feeling a little de-autonomised
Jun 17 19:50:13 shayne	or is this just australian citys and maybe nz ones?
Jun 17 19:51:04 Kameron	i guess the answer to that proposal is 'yes', its possible. but technically it may be challenging
Jun 17 19:51:11 anarchafairy	@
Jun 17 19:51:17 shayne	or to put it another way, would there be a perception in nz that this is an aussie takeover?
Jun 17 19:51:20 smush	anarchafairy?
Jun 17 19:52:18 shayne	maybe we just go down the mir route
Jun 17 19:52:29 anarchafairy	I guess the options are an aus-wide imc (and maybe a pacific imc) plus aimc remaining as is, or a unified oceania imc... which definitely poses problems for smaller places having muhc of voice. 
Jun 17 19:52:37 shayne	like the old united kollectives thing
Jun 17 19:52:47 Nigel	mir route?
Jun 17 19:53:02 shayne	Its also a question of where do Manila and QC fit into this
Jun 17 19:53:07 shayne	They are definately part of the family
Jun 17 19:53:09 anarchafairy	as for danyl's proposal, i think that would be quite difficult to do, but I would lvoe to see a nice drupal imc base that could easily be applied and maintained from one central place
Jun 17 19:53:11 anarchafairy	###
Jun 17 19:53:33 Kameron	@
Jun 17 19:53:36 smush	kameron?
Jun 17 19:53:42 *	shayne personally really doesnt like drupal much. its a bit kludgy for me
Jun 17 19:53:55 shayne	boxy
Jun 17 19:54:23 Kameron	my motivations behind this are so that smaller places that would never have their own imc would now have an indy with a name that is inclusive of them
Jun 17 19:54:59 Kameron	and so bigger places as well, of course, like melb/bris etc
Jun 17 19:55:44 uriohau	@
Jun 17 19:55:47 Kameron	im not sure having a unified site that is really just seperate sites sharing a central base makes much sense, or maybe ive misunderstood it
Jun 17 19:56:09 Kameron	33
Jun 17 19:56:12 Kameron	##
Jun 17 19:56:19 smush	;) uriohau?
Jun 17 19:56:21 uriohau	Wahts the minimum people and time commitement to keep an IMC going?
Jun 17 19:57:06 smush	who wants to respond to uriohau?
Jun 17 19:57:11 shayne	@
Jun 17 19:57:15 smush	shayne?
Jun 17 19:57:47 shayne	In theory its possible with a single person, although its hardly a collective. 3 is the absolute minimum imho, and really you want 5 or more for sanity.
Jun 17 19:58:10 shayne	Perth gets by with 3 active on the site, and another 4-5 doing radio and print and shit, but its all pretty stressfull sometimes
Jun 17 19:58:12 Nigel	@
Jun 17 19:58:19 shayne	##
Jun 17 19:58:46 smush	uriohau u finished?
Jun 17 19:59:03 uriohau	###
Jun 17 19:59:11 smush	sweet, nigel?
Jun 17 19:59:33 Nigel	Basically agree with Shayne's answer...
Jun 17 20:00:14 Nigel	....though it depends on how busy the site is, as well as what extra activitiies the collective wish to perform.
Jun 17 20:00:42 Nigel	Kameron, are you suggesting a scalable type system?
Jun 17 20:00:50 Nigel	###
Jun 17 20:01:01 Kameron	im not suggesting anything really
Jun 17 20:01:08 smush	@
Jun 17 20:01:36 smush	i might just say a couple of things about my interests in this conversation
Jun 17 20:01:51 smush	i'm interested in the possibilty of imc in the pacific, in the islands.
Jun 17 20:02:30 smush	from my personal experience there and conversations with people i'm not convinced that a website is the most suitable thing for people there
Jun 17 20:02:43 smush	as internet is often expensive and people dont have computers much
Jun 17 20:03:22 smush	also, i strongly believe that an imc in tonga, samoa the cooks or whereever needs to be driven by the local people or there whanau (family) living in aotearoa or australia
Jun 17 20:04:14 smush	this is why i started imc-pasifika-setup, which hasnt gone very far but with a bit of outreach that project might eventuate... ###
Jun 17 20:04:28 uriohau	@
Jun 17 20:04:36 smush	go uriohau
Jun 17 20:04:55 uriohau	I think in terms of what our region as awhole is facing its crucial
Jun 17 20:05:37 uriohau	keep the balance beteen local autonomy & regional solidarity
Jun 17 20:06:29 *	greebo  has joined #oceania
Jun 17 20:06:30 *	ChanServ gives channel operator status to greebo
Jun 17 20:07:27 naught101	whoa. wierdness. what's going on?
Jun 17 20:07:43 *	Kameron has changed the topic to: MIM closed! | PROPOSAL: australia/oceania wide IMC ? Meeting: Now
Jun 17 20:07:54 shayne	Meeting dude.
Jun 17 20:08:03 smush	u finished uriohau?
Jun 17 20:08:11 shayne	@
Jun 17 20:08:34 uriohau	for now### 
Jun 17 20:08:40 smush	;) shayne?
Jun 17 20:08:59 shayne	I think one of the catalysts of all this is emotional and physical burnout of eds and geeks.
Jun 17 20:09:27 shayne	I know the melb kids are pretty burnt out, to the point they've had to pull curtains on MIMC, at least for the forseeable future
Jun 17 20:09:35 shayne	Sydney seems perpetually fatigued
Jun 17 20:10:05 shayne	Perths a bit too. I have alot less time than I used to with full time work and all, and al seems pretty frusturated and all hat
Jun 17 20:10:53 shayne	Add to that the a series of really sad attacks on us from so called left wing people, which have been quite heart breaking. Including a couple of years of violence threats and bullying from a certain north coaster I wont mention
Jun 17 20:11:04 shayne	and well, yeah. Somethings gotta change just for our sanitys sake.
Jun 17 20:11:21 shayne	Balancing a thriving IMC and alot of our needs to just take a break and be left alone. Its hard.
Jun 17 20:11:39 shayne	So Yeah. to me thats the crux of all this.
Jun 17 20:11:49 shayne	But at the same time theres verry real differences between imcs
Jun 17 20:12:09 shayne	Philosophically and how thats managed, is really anyones guess at this stage
Jun 17 20:12:24 shayne	Wheres the line between local autonomy and practical centralising
Jun 17 20:12:29 shayne	####
Jun 17 20:12:32 Nigel	@ 
Jun 17 20:12:41 smush	nigel?
Jun 17 20:13:14 Nigel	I think the burnout factor is widespread across the political activist spectrum....
Jun 17 20:13:42 Nigel	....certainly not limited to IMC. 
Jun 17 20:14:08 Nigel	Regarding the difficulty of net access in the islands...
Jun 17 20:14:54 Nigel	...what would be a good way for islanders to get their message out? An IMC "newsagency" of sorts maybe?
Jun 17 20:15:03 Nigel	###
Jun 17 20:15:04 smush	@
Jun 17 20:15:13 Nigel	yes smush?
Jun 17 20:15:19 smush	my response:
Jun 17 20:15:25 smush	i'm not sure...
Jun 17 20:15:43 smush	but, i think we in the west can get quite stuck in the website idea...
Jun 17 20:15:52 smush	...because it works for us.
Jun 17 20:16:10 smush	but there is radical media groups in africa or chiapas who mainly do radio for example.
Jun 17 20:16:28 smush	with a LPFM radio transmiter u could pretty much all of tonga's capital.
Jun 17 20:16:56 shayne	@ I need to reboot. brb. ##
Jun 17 20:17:00 smush	i just think we need to keep the local conditions in mind (print publications are possible too of course= ###
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Jun 17 20:17:10 uriohau	@
Jun 17 20:17:15 smush	uriohau?
Jun 17 20:17:20 aketus	hi all
Jun 17 20:17:21 *	shayne has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
Jun 17 20:17:45 uriohau	people on the ground know ehat their prorities are and what resources they need
Jun 17 20:18:25 uriohau	being urban I also wnat to concentrate on all the islanders in settler nations as well,oz, nz & us, 
Jun 17 20:18:54 uriohau	completle press censorship is a reality in the Islands
Jun 17 20:19:03 uriohau	###
Jun 17 20:19:16 Nigel	@
Jun 17 20:19:29 smush	(btw, uriohau runs a great blog http://uriohau.blogspot.com) go nigel
Jun 17 20:20:05 Nigel	What I'm kinda thinking...
Jun 17 20:20:54 Nigel	...is if resource access is an issue...
Jun 17 20:21:29 Nigel	....a "newsagency" of sorts could be set up to provide a place...
Jun 17 20:21:40 *	shayne  has joined #oceania
Jun 17 20:21:40 *	ChanServ gives channel operator status to shayne
Jun 17 20:21:49 shayne	@back##
Jun 17 20:21:57 *	gdm waves at everyone
Jun 17 20:22:01 Nigel	....where people could bring their stories etc...
Jun 17 20:22:48 Nigel	....to get to the outside world (whether web or audio etc) and could also distribute news coming in
Jun 17 20:23:08 Nigel	###
Jun 17 20:23:23 aketus	@
Jun 17 20:23:31 smush	aketus?
Jun 17 20:24:43 aketus	just wanted to introduce myself to those who don't know me - i'm Mig, one of the Axxs collective, in Melbourne, willing to help as a techie on an oz/oceania IMC and also willing to help check any submissions in French from french polynesia for validity if needed.. as discussed a night or so back. sorry, sure i've missed a lot :)
Jun 17 20:25:27 aketus	###
Jun 17 20:25:32 smush	cool thanks aketus!
Jun 17 20:25:36 Nigel	@
Jun 17 20:25:53 smush	go nigel
Jun 17 20:26:39 Nigel	Thanks aketus - we need all the techies we can get! I know MIM need a techie rather desperately....
Jun 17 20:27:23 Nigel	....if we could implement a login system, that alone would kill off most trolls and prevent burnout.###
Jun 17 20:27:53 Kameron	@
Jun 17 20:27:57 smush	Kameron?
Jun 17 20:28:13 Kameron	i agree with shayne that this is driven by burnout
Jun 17 20:29:02 Kameron	but i think its a chance to have a website that is better than any of the ones we currently have. because there will (hopefully) by many of us contributing
Jun 17 20:29:14 Kameron	which means less trolls etc
Jun 17 20:29:18 anarchafairy	@
Jun 17 20:29:41 Kameron	we've been talking previously about having a 'promoted' newswire on the front page
Jun 17 20:29:53 Kameron	and having anonymous comments go to an approval queue
Jun 17 20:30:09 Kameron	things like that so we can guarantee a better experience to the visitor of the site
Jun 17 20:30:32 Kameron	if we can rid our selves of cursed trollers and so on, we could reach more average people seeking alternative news
Jun 17 20:30:56 Kameron	so i dont think this will be a replacement to current sites
Jun 17 20:31:16 Kameron	indeed i think sydney indy will keep going, but maybe refocus on more local things
Jun 17 20:31:58 Kameron	technically, i can help lead a drupal site to be developed. Im open to other codebases, but will take a non-lead roll if so
Jun 17 20:32:00 Kameron	###
Jun 17 20:32:05 smush	anarchafairy?
Jun 17 20:33:00 anarchafairy	It seesm to me that the problem is more the lack of tech people and tech time. Spam, tolls, etc. can all be virtually done away with a well designed site, and contributers can focus mainly on just that.
Jun 17 20:33:55 anarchafairy	I don't know whether a unified IMC is required to fix that issue, or if it would at all. I think Danyl was correct in his proposal that we need to pool resources in terms of tech stuff, but I don't think he was right in his precise proposal.
Jun 17 20:34:27 anarchafairy	AIMC has been lucky so far that we've had one tech person who has been able to deal with login stuff, etc, and this has kept the collective functioning. But we're not going anywhere with the drupal mifration.
Jun 17 20:34:29 anarchafairy	###
Jun 17 20:34:34 uriohau	@
Jun 17 20:34:39 smush	uriohau?
Jun 17 20:35:21 uriohau	Practical support of our local imc's are curical have to go whanau calls but am willing to dontate time and engery to support these kaupapa. Kia Kaha tatou
Jun 17 20:35:32 uriohau	#33
Jun 17 20:36:21 smush	thanks uriohau, great to have u here!!!
Jun 17 20:36:44 uriohau	Ka Whawahi tonu matou ake ake ake!!!!!
Jun 17 20:36:52 *	uriohau (uriohau at che.indymedia.org) has left #oceania
Jun 17 20:37:26 aketus	@
Jun 17 20:37:30 smush	aketus?
Jun 17 20:38:41 aketus	what's the latest, then? are there people more in favour of a unified IMC? or want to keep things as they are? if there are more techies, are people more inclined to keep things separate? or (as i'm thinking) if there's a concentration of IMCs as one unified site, there'll be a higher concentration of techies who can sustain it
Jun 17 20:38:41 aketus	###
Jun 17 20:39:15 smush	@
Jun 17 20:39:25 smush	i'm happy for tech people to make that call.
Jun 17 20:39:25 Nigel	smush!
Jun 17 20:39:28 aketus	shoot! :)
Jun 17 20:39:48 smush	i dunno anything about tech shit and if it wasnt for u people i would have never been able to use indy ;)
Jun 17 20:40:19 naught101	@
Jun 17 20:40:32 smush	if u think its best to work more together then let's do that if it means our project will be more sustainable ###
Jun 17 20:40:37 smush	naught101?
Jun 17 20:40:40 anarchafairy	@
Jun 17 20:41:07 naught101	how many IMCs are actively trying to recruit techs? ie. have a constant ad on the site for techs? ###
Jun 17 20:41:27 smush	(btw, if someone else wants to have the fantastic job of facilitator type "smush smells" and u get the job ;))
Jun 17 20:41:34 anarchafairy	none AFAIK
Jun 17 20:41:39 smush	anarchafairy?
Jun 17 20:42:26 anarchafairy	I don't know if tech concentration is the issue. Tech work is quite individualistic by nature, and what seems more valuable is *time* of one or tow people who can work initmately together.
Jun 17 20:42:42 anarchafairy	###
Jun 17 20:42:52 smush	other responses to aketus (or nigel)?
Jun 17 20:43:51 Kameron	@
Jun 17 20:43:52 *	shayne would be fine with centralising tech but Id *really* rather not use something as klunky and crude as drupal
Jun 17 20:43:58 smush	kameron?
Jun 17 20:44:08 shayne	@## <-- insert those
Jun 17 20:44:14 smush	;)
Jun 17 20:44:39 Kameron	i tech sydney / coffs coast / arafura.  i dunno, in some ways i wish i could just run one site
Jun 17 20:45:16 Kameron	my keeness for 'centralisation' means i can focus more. not repeat things over several sites
Jun 17 20:45:30 Kameron	##
Jun 17 20:46:18 naught101	@
Jun 17 20:46:25 shayne	@
Jun 17 20:46:27 smush	naught101?
Jun 17 20:47:07 naught101	Cat.org.au had a centralised drupal site setup, for many sites. it was a pain in the arse for us (risingtide)... but it was probably good for the CAT people
Jun 17 20:47:15 naught101	##
Jun 17 20:47:22 smush	shayne?
Jun 17 20:48:14 shayne	Perths software does a similar thing. one central install back end, and a few directorys for themes and setup info, and what version modules are used. It does make life alot easier, tho perths codes getting a bit rustic in its old age
Jun 17 20:48:23 Kameron	@
Jun 17 20:48:55 shayne	Again, as I said, I'm really not keen on drupal, My observation is that drupal is horribly slow, and drupal sites have an awful tendancy of looking like drupal sites
Jun 17 20:49:12 naught101	@
Jun 17 20:49:17 shayne	If we had a more practical solution, it'd be easier to work with.
Jun 17 20:49:23 shayne	I just dont thing drupals that apropriate
Jun 17 20:49:25 shayne	###
Jun 17 20:49:25 anarchafairy	(They aren't slow, but they do tend to be ugly.... that's designers fault, not druapl)
Jun 17 20:49:32 shayne	@
Jun 17 20:49:33 smush	kameron?
Jun 17 20:49:36 naught101	(agree with anarchafairy)
Jun 17 20:49:36 shayne	I disagree. Drupals a snail
Jun 17 20:49:37 shayne	#
Jun 17 20:49:47 Kameron	everything you have said about drupal is false shayne
Jun 17 20:49:56 kenny	sorry I gtg 2 bed - keep me posted on ne decisions smush & @fairy
Jun 17 20:49:58 aketus	@
Jun 17 20:50:08 anarchafairy	Night night :)
Jun 17 20:50:09 Kameron	drupal runs some high end sites. and can be graphically designed how ever you please. it just takes work
Jun 17 20:50:19 shayne	@ I speak from alot of experience with alot of drupal sites btw ##
Jun 17 20:50:33 kenny	bye all  :-)
Jun 17 20:50:34 smush	see ya kenny!
Jun 17 20:50:40 naught101	@
Jun 17 20:50:43 shayne	@ stick it thru cachegrind. you'll be gobsmacked #
Jun 17 20:50:43 *	kenny has quit (Quit: CGI:IRC (EOF))
Jun 17 20:50:45 anarchafairy	(ok, we'll put the code-fight to one side for now?)
Jun 17 20:50:50 Kameron	ok, whatever. The central install at cat.org.au was just sharing of the codebase files, nothing else
Jun 17 20:50:53 Kameron	which was a pain really
Jun 17 20:50:59 Kameron	33
Jun 17 20:51:01 Kameron	##
Jun 17 20:51:02 smush	i'm with anarchafairy
Jun 17 20:51:13 smush	aketus now?
Jun 17 20:51:17 naught101	##
Jun 17 20:52:36 aketus	aside from code fight - just wanted to add as Kameron did that I'm willing to take a main role in working with a Drupal site. Mostly from experience with it rather than anything favourable. And willing to work on any other sort of codebase, just that it'd put me in a learner's seat to do so. ###
Jun 17 20:53:11 Kameron	@
Jun 17 20:53:17 smush	k, so that was a pass from naught101 i think, who's next?
Jun 17 20:53:19 smush	kameron?
Jun 17 20:53:47 anarchafairy	(A NZ gov website based on drupal: http://www.nzhistory.net.nz/ : terrible site, but pretty and fast)
Jun 17 20:53:53 Kameron	we have to have a critical mass of techs who know the code we are using. I think its up to people to suggest something if they want to lead and a commitment to continue
Jun 17 20:53:55 Kameron	##
Jun 17 20:54:44 smush	@
Jun 17 20:54:53 Nigel	yes smush?
Jun 17 20:54:56 smush	;)
Jun 17 20:55:27 smush	well, personally i'd rather make a conscious decision on the project rather the software...
Jun 17 20:55:35 smush	...but i see how that's very much related.
Jun 17 20:55:37 Kameron	@
Jun 17 20:55:48 smush	for me a united project needs to be carried by the collectives.
Jun 17 20:56:08 smush	i think that discussion needs to be there too and decisions made there
Jun 17 20:56:18 smush	but we need to know what resources and skills we have
Jun 17 20:56:51 smush	there has been resistance in the aotearoa ed collective to kameron's proposal - not because of tech issues but because they think they'll go under
Jun 17 20:56:59 Nigel	@
Jun 17 20:57:00 smush	those issues need to be addressed too.
Jun 17 20:57:05 smush	###
Jun 17 20:57:07 smush	kameron?
Jun 17 20:57:26 Kameron	yeah we need not get ahead of ourselves, tech stuff can come later..
Jun 17 20:57:34 Kameron	Has there been any dissent at all yet?
Jun 17 20:57:53 Kameron	33
Jun 17 20:57:57 Kameron	fuck ##
Jun 17 20:58:06 anarchafairy	dissent to a unified imc?
Jun 17 20:58:18 smush	from omar, pretty much yes
Jun 17 20:58:29 smush	and ken - but they are keen for discussion
Jun 17 20:58:34 smush	nigel?
Jun 17 20:59:05 Nigel	Few things I'd like to throw out there for people to think about....
Jun 17 20:59:58 Nigel	..one of the key issues which I've noticed affecting nearly all activist groups, including IMC...
Jun 17 21:00:45 Nigel	....is lack of organisation. This ultimately leads to more burnout than trolls etc...
Jun 17 21:01:19 Nigel	....I think it would be good as part of whatever it is we end up deciding to do...
Jun 17 21:02:04 Nigel	...to have a "Collective management page" which would list tasks which need to be performed...
Jun 17 21:02:30 naught101	(IMC groupware server?)
Jun 17 21:02:38 Nigel	...who's doing them, etc. And also...
Jun 17 21:03:17 Nigel	...I've got an idea cooking in my head for an "activist smorgasboard"...
Jun 17 21:03:42 smush	(yummy!)
Jun 17 21:04:32 Nigel	....which would be kinda like job ads, but for volunteers (IE: "Hi I'm so and so, I can do Drupal/circuit design/stencil design/etc etc)"......
Jun 17 21:04:59 Nigel	....as well as ads requesting people who have certain skills
Jun 17 21:05:07 Nigel	Feedback?###
Jun 17 21:05:15 shayne	@
Jun 17 21:05:19 smush	shayne?
Jun 17 21:05:33 shayne	Perth IMC had that feature built into it for 2 years. No one ever used it.
Jun 17 21:05:35 shayne	#
Jun 17 21:05:42 shayne	@
Jun 17 21:05:49 smush	shayne ;)
Jun 17 21:05:49 shayne	Its in manilas software. No one uses it there
Jun 17 21:05:50 shayne	#
Jun 17 21:05:54 Nigel	@
Jun 17 21:05:57 smush	nigel?
Jun 17 21:06:33 Nigel	That doesn't mean WE can't use it. Promote it by using it.###
Jun 17 21:06:51 shayne	@
Jun 17 21:06:55 smush	sayne
Jun 17 21:07:14 shayne	The ideas been around for a while. I do like the tasks stuff etc, BUT
Jun 17 21:07:25 shayne	The notice board stuff worked like this in perths software
Jun 17 21:07:46 shayne	A user could sign up, and list her actiist interests (or "causes") and skills. 
Jun 17 21:08:03 shayne	Groups could also sign up and list there "causes", and what they where looking for
Jun 17 21:08:19 shayne	IT could then match folks to groups "dating service" style.
Jun 17 21:08:45 shayne	There was calendars, email list manager, todo lists , heaps of that stuf. Like yahoo groups but focused really tight on activist needs
Jun 17 21:08:50 shayne	but really, no one used it.
Jun 17 21:08:57 shayne	so we phased it out in activismo v2
Jun 17 21:09:39 shayne	##
Jun 17 21:09:45 Nigel	@
Jun 17 21:10:21 smush	nigel?
Jun 17 21:10:52 Nigel	I wonder why that is? Seems like a good idea :)
Jun 17 21:11:17 shayne	I'd love to know. I was really proud of that software
Jun 17 21:11:19 Nigel	It could be that not enough people knew about it...
Jun 17 21:11:25 smush	@
Jun 17 21:11:54 Nigel	...that's one problem I've noticed with a lot of web-based...
Jun 17 21:12:16 anarchafairy	(i feel we're getting off topic?)
Jun 17 21:12:23 shayne	aye
Jun 17 21:12:40 Nigel	....activism - no one knows about it! Yes - let's back on track###
Jun 17 21:12:55 smush	###
Jun 17 21:13:02 smush	@
Jun 17 21:13:10 Nigel	smush!
Jun 17 21:13:12 smush	another thing,
Jun 17 21:13:14 anarchafairy	@
Jun 17 21:13:52 smush	if there are people keen to discuss pasifika imc more and do outreach please join the email list. i think these discussion can run parallel. ###
Jun 17 21:13:54 smush	fairy?
Jun 17 21:14:14 anarchafairy	i have to go to bed soon...
Jun 17 21:14:18 anarchafairy	For me the main motivation for a unified IMC would be to get good code sorted, and sites looking pretty. Having oceania collectives working together on this backend could help this (but I still think few techs with more time is vastly more productive than more techs each with little time).
Jun 17 21:14:19 anarchafairy	I think if we could get nice code but customised front-ends for different areas (ie. simply a pull down menu [or url] that places local features or a local newswire in the main places) we could avoid people get subsumed by Oz. Perhaps to start with we could share a single nicely designed stylesheet, and maybe later think about customising this... I dunno.
Jun 17 21:14:19 anarchafairy	AIMC has a dev drupal site (http://dev.indymedia.org.nz) sitting waiting for bug fixing and a bug free stylesheet. With some serious work this could probably be put into action soonish, but at the moment we're stuck because we don't have that time or the techs (I can't seem to make stylesheets that work in IE!).
Jun 17 21:15:01 anarchafairy	###
Jun 17 21:15:23 naught101	(dev.im.nz looks nice, btw!)
Jun 17 21:15:27 *	shayne a professional webcoder and I have nightmares about getting stuff working in ie
Jun 17 21:15:59 shayne	@
Jun 17 21:16:11 smush	shayne?
Jun 17 21:17:09 shayne	Perhaps the idea is for the more geekishly inclined to form a more informal workgroup to look at the tech options and perhaps report back to another meeting in a couple of weeks or something
Jun 17 21:17:25 shayne	meanwhile we report back to our collectives on some of the issues socially we've talked about 
Jun 17 21:17:47 shayne	and I might add we should consider a password sharing arangement where folks can troll swat on other folks indys 
Jun 17 21:18:21 shayne	so if perth crew are all off getting shitfaced at a gig, and a melbs person sees , uh, (A troll) running riot, they can get in there and start swatting away, and vice versa.
Jun 17 21:18:38 shayne	##
Jun 17 21:18:42 Nigel	@
Jun 17 21:18:50 smush	nigel?
Jun 17 21:19:40 Nigel	I think anarchafairy's idea of "customised front-ends for different areas" is a good one....
Jun 17 21:20:17 Nigel	....also the password sharing arrangement idea is good to. ###
Jun 17 21:20:27 shayne	@
Jun 17 21:20:28 smush	@
Jun 17 21:20:31 smush	shayne?
Jun 17 21:20:59 Kameron	@
Jun 17 21:21:31 shayne	If we did it, we'd have to make sure every understands the different community values of each site. If perth eds went in with the hard  core chaos-grid aproach to troll smashing, it could really piss off the more free-speech-libertopia types on sydneys site
Jun 17 21:21:31 shayne	and so on
Jun 17 21:21:31 shayne	##
Jun 17 21:21:55 smush	my turn. i like shayne's idea of a few techies talking further and all of us going back to our groups and also continuing the discussion on the oceania list. ###
Jun 17 21:22:04 smush	now kameron
Jun 17 21:22:26 Kameron	shayne, sydney isnt really free=speechl-libertopia ...not anymore
Jun 17 21:22:42 Kameron	can geeks join the oceania-tech list for tech discussion   http://lists.indymedia.org.au/mailman/listinfo/oceania-tech
Jun 17 21:22:44 Kameron	##
Jun 17 21:22:59 *	aketus will do
Jun 17 21:23:05 *	naught101 too
Jun 17 21:23:18 anarchafairy	done
Jun 17 21:23:41 *	smush will keep an eye on the archives but wont join coz he's not a techie. yay! ;)
Jun 17 21:23:49 aketus	lucky :)
Jun 17 21:24:13 smush	should we leave it there? or do people wanna keep goig?
Jun 17 21:24:22 Nigel	@
Jun 17 21:24:24 anarchafairy	@
Jun 17 21:24:26 smush	nigel?
Jun 17 21:24:39 shayne	http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/236/2220/1600/chaosgrid.jpg
Jun 17 21:24:42 Nigel	I have to get going soon...
Jun 17 21:24:49 shayne	well. action action
Jun 17 21:25:05 Nigel	....my first real IRC session. It's been fun! :)
Jun 17 21:25:09 Nigel	###
Jun 17 21:25:12 smush	fairy?
Jun 17 21:25:56 anarchafairy	Could we nominate someone to sum up the discussion here and report back on the various proposals made (cos no one is going to read the IRC log)... and it'd also make a good starting point to furthe rnut this out =n the oceania tech list
Jun 17 21:25:58 anarchafairy	###
Jun 17 21:26:08 anarchafairy	@ not me... i'm fucked with school ###
Jun 17 21:26:37 smush	good idea fairy - volunteers?
Jun 17 21:26:44 aketus	@i missed a good 50 minutes of it, so i'm outing myself :)###
Jun 17 21:27:05 shayne	yeah. I missed a big chunk it seems and also no logs or time :(
Jun 17 21:27:17 smush	that leaves kameron or me, right? ;)
Jun 17 21:27:40 aketus	:) ive got logs if anyone needs 
Jun 17 21:27:40 Kameron	im not summarising, read the damn log!
Jun 17 21:27:46 smush	hehe
Jun 17 21:27:48 aketus	haha
Jun 17 21:27:51 aketus	RTFL
Jun 17 21:27:55 smush	ok, i'll try and do a summary
Jun 17 21:28:07 anarchafairy	..after u get sum sleep
Jun 17 21:28:09 anarchafairy	;)
Jun 17 21:28:13 smush	can someone email me the log and i'll send it all out to the oceania list
Jun 17 21:28:15 anarchafairy	thanks smush
Jun 17 21:28:22 aketus	top job on hosting the meeting smush
Jun 17 21:28:24 smush	yeah, sleep would be nice ;)
Jun 17 21:28:34 anarchafairy	it's only takver with the log, right?
Jun 17 21:28:41 aketus	i got log
Jun 17 21:28:47 anarchafairy	oh, sweet
Jun 17 21:28:57 smush	email me aketus: smushcapitalism(at)xxxxx
Jun 17 21:29:09 aketus	cool. would you like it from September of last year? :D
Jun 17 21:29:15 aketus	kidding, i'll trim it :)
Jun 17 21:29:18 smush	one more thing: who is gonna call the next meeting?
Jun 17 21:29:31 anarchafairy	sort it out on list?
Jun 17 21:29:41 smush	sure
Jun 17 21:29:44 Kameron	aketus didnt you come in half way throug 
Jun 17 21:29:52 Nigel	I think we'll need to call a meeting to discuss that one smush! :)
Jun 17 21:29:52 aketus	oh - good point
Jun 17 21:29:57 anarchafairy	!
Jun 17 21:30:23 anarchafairy	anyone know Takver's email addy?
Jun 17 21:30:37 Nigel	xxxx(at)takver.com
Jun 17 21:30:42 anarchafairy	sweet
Jun 17 21:30:52 anarchafairy	i'll ask him to send to smush
Jun 17 21:31:00 smush	cool, thanks fairy
Jun 17 21:31:13 smush	give me 24 hours for the summary, thanks
Jun 17 21:32:10 smush	k, call it closed. maybe next time we can use some more signs, like something for support/dissent.
Jun 17 21:32:22 smush	it think they make online meetings a little faster
Jun 17 21:32:24 anarchafairy	everybody ;oves signs
Jun 17 21:33:03 aketus	maybe a 'l0l' or a 'w00t' or 'kthxbai' - it IS IRC after all
Jun 17 21:33:06 aketus	:)
Jun 17 21:33:20 smush	to geeky for me
Jun 17 21:33:25 *	aketus laughs
Jun 17 21:33:56 anarchafairy	wt?
Jun 17 21:34:00 anarchafairy	anyway
Jun 17 21:34:04 anarchafairy	night night!
Jun 17 21:34:25 aketus	night!
Jun 17 21:34:27 smush	sleep well!
Jun 17 21:34:28 Nigel	Sleep tight!
Jun 17 21:35:19 *	anarchafairy  has left #oceania (Leaving)
Jun 17 21:35:25 Nigel	Gotta go myself. See y'all next time!
Jun 17 21:35:35 aketus	bye
Jun 17 21:35:49 smush	catch up nigel
Jun 17 21:35:59 smush	which city u from again?
Jun 17 21:36:10 Nigel	Melbourne
Jun 17 21:36:35 smush	true, sweet
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Jun 17 21:39:17 *	shayne  has left #oceania
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