[imc-melbourne-work] Re: [G20media] Melbourne Indymedia Suspends Open Publishing

[and]

On 26/06/2007, at 8:26 AM, Anna Helme wrote:

> and wrote:
>> Only just saw this.
>> Once clarification...
>> <snip>
>> On 13/06/2007, at 12:15 PM, Anna Helme wrote:
>>> Given the state of things at the moment it may take a while for  
>>> someone to get back to you about appearing on a panel. Andrew and  
>>> I have gone up to talk about EngageMedia (and launch the site  
>>> actually) at TINA in the last couple of years but haven't really  
>>> engaged with it this year. Andrew would have lots to say about  
>>> Indymedia I think, from a very critical perspective, as he was  
>>> very involved for some years now but is quite over it and left  
>>> the collective a few months ago.
>>
>> AFAIK I haven't left :) It seems I am still here, just largely  
>> inactive and only doing bits and pieces of emergency things like  
>> adding new blocked keywords (not that i need to now) or helping  
>> facilitate archives getting back online. I haven't left yet but  
>> will let you all know if I do :)
> Sorry, my mistake. I understood your point of view to be that MIM  
> should fold, and that whether or not it reemerged you were not  
> interested in working in the collective anymore. Apols.

I think that "mim should fork" might a more accurate assessment of my  
position. If the new mim is just the old mim on drupal then I don't  
find that particularly inspiring. I think a much deeper autopsy needs  
to be done and that the new melb indymedia doesn't have to be  
indymedia at all, though it could be. I don't think we should get  
sentimental about brands, I think the current one needs a sober  
assessment of it's construction and management.

Basically I'm trying to detach the brand from the mission and this  
agglomeration of individuals. Trying to start and the beginning again  
with the past in mind, if that makes any sense :)
And.

>
> Cheers,
> Anna
>
>>
>>>
>>> There are some interesting things being talked about on the  
>>> Indymedia front - one idea is to make an Australian Indymedia  
>>> site - and run local news for each city off that. This may work  
>>> much better as there are fewer programmers and sys-admins to go  
>>> around these days, and it would lessen the work to maintain only  
>>> one site. Of course viable editorial collectives must form for  
>>> each local branch or it won't function. But upgraded software  
>>> will benefit the ability to moderate and editorialise user- 
>>> generated content immensely.
>>>
>>> Another idea going on globally is Indymedia Alternatives. I was  
>>> following the discussion on this in the first few months but  
>>> haven't really kept up with it, but the idea with this was two- 
>>> fold - to design a site around positive alternatives to help  
>>> shape the movement into coming up with ideas and models for  
>>> change rather than mere criticisms of the status quo, and  
>>> secondly to rethink web technologies and figure out what to do  
>>> next with news publishing and community sites - to be a  
>>> revolutionary new way of doing things as Indymedia was in its  
>>> inception.
>>>
>>> Many of the problems with Indymedia are seen to be with the wider  
>>> "movement" itself - the anti-capitalist movement that has  
>>> gathered for mass summit protests since Seattle. People are  
>>> questioning the value of protest and what it can achieve in these  
>>> times - and this is obviously central to what Indymedia is all  
>>> about and what it is often used most effectively to support.
>>>
>>> People are also wondering how to promote their content in the  
>>> black hole of the Internet, and how to filter the Internet to  
>>> find the content they want to see. Methods of doing this such as  
>>> social bookmarking and tagging have not necessarily been picked  
>>> up by Indymedia sites. I suppose Indymedia folk are looking at  
>>> the big online community sites like MySpace, big publishing sites  
>>> like Flickr and YouTube, to try to steal the best ideas of how to  
>>> network people and provide publishing space effectively whilst  
>>> using these tools for social change rather than naval-gazing,  
>>> happy-snaps and funniest home videos. There is much to learn by  
>>> huge collaborative news sites like Slashdot.
>>>
>>> Indymedia is also trying to move away from home-grown codebases  
>>> to big content management systems like Drupal and Plone in order  
>>> to cut down on time spent developing features that are already  
>>> available.
>>>
>>> But Indymedia has to work out what it wants to be to serve a  
>>> movement that isn't always able to articulate what it is or how  
>>> to achieve it's goals of global social justice either. It's  
>>> really a time of questions rather than answers, it seems.
>>>
>>> I'll send you an email address for Louise as this email went to  
>>> me not the g20media list. Hope you're well, glad to hear you're  
>>> doing NYWF and livening it up a bit this year! :)
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Anna
>>>
>>> Nicolas Low wrote:
>>>> Hey there Anna,
>>>>
>>>> How's trix? I'm sorry to hear that things are on hold at Melbourne
>>>> Indymedia. It's a huge job and there has to be fresh blood to  
>>>> keep it going
>>>> - it was amazing to be part of it in a small way during the G20,  
>>>> but alas
>>>> that was the extent of my ability to contribute. I've checked in  
>>>> many many
>>>> times over the last few years and I wanted to let you guys know  
>>>> that the
>>>> work you've done is amazing and valuable. Whenever I see  
>>>> something on the
>>>> news related to activism, it's the first place I check.
>>>>
>>>> I'll pass on the word on a few websites and lists I have access  
>>>> to, and
>>>> fingers crossed there's some new energy out there to take it over.
>>>>
>>>> I'm co-coordinating the National Young Writers' Festival this  
>>>> year, so I
>>>> know what it's like to be part of something which has a glorious  
>>>> history but
>>>> not so much current energy behind it. I'm part of the fresh  
>>>> blood that's
>>>> trying to keep the NYWF alive, but it was pretty shaky last  
>>>> year. We're
>>>> looking good this year and there's going to be a shitload of stuff
>>>> happening, but it's never easy when everything relies on our  
>>>> volunteer love.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> When I saw the e-mail, I had a thought: would one of the  
>>>> Melbourne indymedia
>>>> crew like to come to Newcastle for NYWF / This Is Not Art in  
>>>> September to
>>>> talk about what's been happening? We're doing a session on on-line
>>>> publishing, looking at discussing different strategies for  
>>>> making it viable,
>>>> and I think it would be really valuable for people to hear about  
>>>> Melbourne
>>>> Indymedia's journey, why you've had to suspend the site, and also
>>>> potentially put a call out for new blood and energy. There's  
>>>> going to be
>>>> around 1000 young writers there and it's a pretty good  
>>>> opportunity to get
>>>> some newcomers excited. It's in NSW, but there's a huge  
>>>> Melbourne presence
>>>> going to be there.
>>>>
>>>> We're also doing a 'messages to the media' skillshare about ways  
>>>> of handling
>>>> mainstream media for activists - something you guys might also  
>>>> want to feed
>>>> into? It's going to be talking specifically about G20, but also  
>>>> with an eye
>>>> out for what'll happen at APEC. I'd particularly love to get in  
>>>> touch with
>>>> Louise and see if she'd be up for that one, especially given the  
>>>> ongoing
>>>> madness of the Gunns lawsuit. If anyone getting this has an e- 
>>>> mail for her,
>>>> that would be great.
>>>>
>>>> Anyways, I'd love to know your thoughts.
>>>> Peace,
>>>> Nic
>>>> 0424 832 231
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: g20media-bounces at axxs.org [mailto:g20media- 
>>>> bounces at axxs.org] On Behalf
>>>> Of Anna Helme
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, 12 June 2007 3:07 PM
>>>> To: undisclosed-recipients:
>>>> Subject: [G20media] Melbourne Indymedia Suspends Open Publishing
>>>>
>>>> Please pass on to interested folks.. Melbourne Indymedia has  
>>>> suspended open publishing.
>>>> A public meeting will be announced in the next couple of weeks  
>>>> to explore the future of
>>>> Indymedia - whether or not it will continue at all - and if so  
>>>> what shape it should take.
>>>>
>>>> You can email collective at melbourne.indymedia.org in the meantime.
>>>>
>>>> If there is a real need for an activist news/analysis site for  
>>>> Melbourne then a new collective
>>>> will have to emerge with fresh ideas about where to take it. New  
>>>> software needs to be
>>>> developed, and a web-developer or two with time to invest need  
>>>> to be found to make this
>>>> happen.
>>>>
>>>> Anyone interested in forming part of a new editorial collective  
>>>> should also take this
>>>> opportunity to get involved. Indymedia needs to rethink its  
>>>> identity in a world where anyone
>>>> can blog or publish on the web - unlike the early days when IMCs  
>>>> were initially formed.
>>>>
>>>> Individual blogs don't allow the same capacity for community- 
>>>> building as a site where
>>>> many can post and share their news and ideas. But maintaining an  
>>>> online community and
>>>> figuring out who can speak, and which issues should be featured  
>>>> is not an easy task -
>>>> there needs to be the will behind it, a real need for the  
>>>> community to exist.
>>>>
>>>> If social justice and environmental campaigners and the  
>>>> "activist community" still want
>>>> to make use of this resource and the global network of  
>>>> independent news sites then they will
>>>> have to be involved in shaping what Melbourne Indymedia  
>>>> becomes... alternatively the
>>>> site will collapse and something fresh may or may not appear to  
>>>> replace it.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Anna
>>>>
>>>> Statement and email from Takver from the Melbourne Indymedia  
>>>> Collective follows....
>>>>
>>>> - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>>>>
>>>> Statement featured on Front Page of Melbourne IMC:
>>>>
>>>> Open publishing has been suspended on Melbourne Indymedia as  
>>>> numbers in
>>>> our editorial collective are insufficient to manage the site  
>>>> effectively
>>>> and responsibly. We realise that MIM has played a vital role in
>>>> reporting activist news from Melbourne, around Australia and
>>>> internationally. To this end the present collective will be  
>>>> assessing
>>>> options for how best to provide an activist news service in the  
>>>> future.
>>>> If you wish to get involved, please contact us, or subscribe to our
>>>> mailing list.
>>>>
>>>> While open publishing is suspended, our collective suggests if  
>>>> you have
>>>> a well researched, well-written story about Melbourne events,  
>>>> you should
>>>> post the story to Sydney Indymedia. We thank our many loyal  
>>>> readers and
>>>> contributors for several years of grassroots journalism and media
>>>> activism and hope we can resume reporting with an even better  
>>>> interface
>>>> at some stage in the future.
>>>> Melbourne Indymedia Collective
>>>>
>>>> http://melbourne.indymedia.org/index.php
>>>>
>>>> ++++++++++++
>>>>
>>>> A linked article gives some reasons:
>>>>
>>>> Basically, irate users and spammers have become more persistent  
>>>> in their
>>>> attacks and without a software upgrade or a collective of  
>>>> several people
>>>> to actively moderate posts and do features, the site is  
>>>> unworkable. If
>>>> numbers are insufficient to moderate the site effectively, then the
>>>> only responsible action is to stop open publishing.
>>>>
>>>> I think this is the responsible thing to do for our loyal  
>>>> readers and
>>>> contributors, many of whom have openly complained about spam and
>>>> crossposts being published and unmoderated.
>>>>
>>>> http://melbourne.indymedia.org/news/2007/06/146534.php
>>>>
>>>> As an editor of 4 years standing here are some personal comments:
>>>>
>>>> One of the factors leading to our current situation was the  
>>>> debilitating
>>>> conflict with ML in Darwin during 2006/2007 and the perceived  
>>>> lack of
>>>> organisational solidarity displayed by the network resulting in  
>>>> active
>>>> members of the Melbourne collective drifting away from Melbourne
>>>> Indymedia into other projects. We haven't been able to generate  
>>>> more
>>>> interest or more involvement in the admin/site editing/ feature  
>>>> writing
>>>> of the site since.
>>>>
>>>> The weekly radio program on community radio was well organised  
>>>> this year
>>>> with more people involved, but no one understood that basic site  
>>>> admin
>>>> and editorial has fallen really to a couple of people for quite  
>>>> a long
>>>> period of time. In terms of reporting there is really only 2 or  
>>>> 3 ppl
>>>> (of whom I include myself) who actively report to the newswire on
>>>> activist events and demos in Melbourne.
>>>>
>>>> The actual trigger for the decision to suspend publishing was an  
>>>> irate
>>>> regular contributor from Sydney (Parrot Press) who spammed the  
>>>> local
>>>> newswire with over 200 posts in 4 days, after other contributors  
>>>> and an
>>>> editor criticised him for overwhelming the site with his posts and
>>>> crossposting irrelevant comments. Attempts were made to de- 
>>>> escalate the
>>>> situation which proved fruitless. IP logging was temporarily  
>>>> turned on
>>>> in an attempt to block the user, but the user was using proxies, so
>>>> could not be effectively blocked from spamming the wire or  
>>>> threads. So
>>>> our collective reluctantly decided we no longer had the time or  
>>>> energy
>>>> to moderate and should close down open publishing.
>>>>
>>>> Over the last few years we have seen the rise of blogging, and
>>>> particularly moderated group blogs that have drawn people away,
>>>> particularly when there is the constant verbal harassment in  
>>>> Indymedia
>>>> comment threads. Leftwrites (www.leftwrites.net) is one  
>>>> prominent blog
>>>> primarily based in Melbourne that analyses the news from a broadly
>>>> leftist perspective (left social democrat to anarchist) that has
>>>> attracted some of our readers (and criticism from others). The  
>>>> rise of
>>>> blogging gives everyone with access to the internet a voice, but  
>>>> it is
>>>> not the same as producing a news site, which Indymedia at its  
>>>> very basis
>>>> is about: grassroots and activist news.
>>>>
>>>> Spam control has been an ongoing battle of which Melbourne  
>>>> managed to
>>>> stay mostly ahead, but it has been a constant drain on time and  
>>>> energy,
>>>> requiring tweaking the software and manual moderation. To stay  
>>>> ahead of
>>>> the game at this stage we really needed a software upgrade. A
>>>> development site using drupal had been 80% completed. If this  
>>>> new site
>>>> had been completed and put into production our decision to  
>>>> suspend open
>>>> publishing may not have been necessary.
>>>>
>>>> Melbourne does need an activist news site, and open publishing  
>>>> should be
>>>> part of that, but I have come to the conclusion that more editorial
>>>> control needs to be asserted to increase the standard of  
>>>> articles on the
>>>> principal newswire. Open publishing should be used to generate new
>>>> contributors and news postings, but should not be allowed to  
>>>> dominate
>>>> the site editorially as it has with the newswires and present  
>>>> software
>>>> (sf-active) used in Melbourne. Indybay has made sf-active work,  
>>>> although
>>>> I know there is a lot of moderation going on in the background  
>>>> to make
>>>> it effective.
>>>>
>>>> We need to empower article contributors by letting them decide  
>>>> if they
>>>> want all comments, be able to approve comments, or choose no  
>>>> comments.
>>>> Remember if a poster chooses no comments in a well written article,
>>>> balance can be achieved by promoting a well written critical  
>>>> article in
>>>> response. Too often I have seen contributors being turned away from
>>>> Indymedia by the extent of abusive or destructive comments,  
>>>> because we
>>>> provided no option to turn off comments, and we have not had the  
>>>> time or
>>>> energy to moderate effectively.
>>>>
>>>> I also want to reward consistent contributors of good articles  
>>>> by their
>>>> articles being promoted without moderation. That is where  
>>>> userids should
>>>> come in. A contributor should be able to build a profile and can  
>>>> then be
>>>> allowed priviledged posting access.
>>>> One of the carrots we should be offering our contributors is that
>>>> promoted articles will be indexed by Google News. So that  
>>>> reports by
>>>> grassroots activists can be accessed alongside corporate media  
>>>> reports.
>>>> My greatest pleasure last year was seeing a woman involved in an
>>>> industrial dispute, not previously an Indy reader, from one of  
>>>> those
>>>> union solidarity pickets that go for several weeks in the  
>>>> suburbs, begin
>>>> to post to MIM, and their posts were featured in the centre  
>>>> column and
>>>> picked up by Google News to counterbalance reports in the  
>>>> mainstream
>>>> papers of The Age and Herald Sun. Similarly with Tasmanian forest
>>>> protests in which forest activists were able to counterbalance  
>>>> the PR of
>>>> the timber companies thru indy articles. We became highly useful in
>>>> 'getting the news out' not just to our Indymedia scene but to a  
>>>> much
>>>> wider audience. It was very empowering to those contributors and  
>>>> to us
>>>> as media activists.
>>>>
>>>> The real test is can we bounce back and provide something better  
>>>> than we
>>>> had today that allows us to concentrate on grassroots and  
>>>> activist news.
>>>> I hope so. The next several weeks we will find out whether the  
>>>> Melbourne
>>>> collective can regroup and continue a presence with a dedicated  
>>>> site.
>>>>
>>>> There is also a new idea being put forward of an Australian  
>>>> continental
>>>> IMC. A few people across Australian IMCs have started   
>>>> discussing this
>>>> possibility along the lines of us.indymedia, uk.indymedia, or even
>>>> aotearoa IMC. We might see where that takes us as well.
>>>>
>>>> in solidarity
>>>> Takver
>>>> one of Melbourne IMC
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>> imc-melbourne-work at indymedia.org.au
>>>> http://lists.indymedia.org.au/mailman/listinfo/imc-melbourne-work
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>
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>>
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