From tongmaster at arseclown.tv Wed Jun 1 13:53:58 2005 From: tongmaster at arseclown.tv (TongMaster) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 23:53:58 +1000 Subject: [Imc-melbourne-geeks] Melb IMC Dev Site is Live Message-ID: <1117634038.8184.32.camel@localhost.localdomain> Sorry for the wait but you can visit it here: http://melbourne.devel.indymedia.org/ to see nothing but a standard drupal page :) Well, that's the start. Pabs and I locked horns last night and mid-wifed this site. There is currently only one account (the administrator). So we need to start thinking about accounts and for whom etc. Themes, themes to base the site on and customise for Melbourne. Some ideas are here: http://drupal.org/project/Themes and here: http://themes.drupal.org/ The easiest way to go about this is to have some creative type develop a style and then I can apply it to an already developed theme and run it from there. You'll also need to start thinking about account creation, moderation, access control, desired modules: http://drupal.org/project/Modules - unless I'm told a certain module is required, it won't go up :) You'll also need to think about taxonomy (or categories/topics/heirachy) etc. Access control lists, classes of users (if any) and oh, so much more ;) You've probably already thought about most of these things, so let's get the ball rolling. -- Journalist: "Will the number of pages in the Tax Act be reduced by the introduction of a GST?" John Howard: "Yes it will". --John Howard (interview Alan Jones Radio 2UE, 14 August 1998) The Truth: ". . . the Tax Act has grown from 3,000 to over 9,000 pages and an additional 2.5 million words have been inserted into the Tax Act, since 1 July 2000." --National Tax & Accountants' Association, 15 August 2002 From tongmaster at arseclown.tv Thu Jun 2 11:46:20 2005 From: tongmaster at arseclown.tv (TongMaster) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 21:46:20 +1000 Subject: [Imc-melbourne-geeks] melbourne.devel.indymedia.org upgraded Message-ID: <1117712780.8057.53.camel@localhost.localdomain> A new release of Drupal was made this morning. 4.6.1, so I upgraded the dev site from 4.6.0. "And" was also made a Drupal administrator. Happy Drupal-ing :) -- We had clear intelligence assessments that Iraq had a weapons of mass destruction capability." -- John Howard, October 3, 2003 "Australian intelligence agencies made it clear to the Government all along that Iraq did not have a massive WMD programme. I will go so far as to say that the material was going straight from ONA to the Prime Minister's Office and the dishonesty was occuring somewhere in there." -- Andrew Wilkie, senior intelligence officer May 31st, 2003 From and at axxs.org Fri Jun 3 18:37:34 2005 From: and at axxs.org (and) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 00:07:34 +0530 Subject: [Imc-melbourne-geeks] Melb IMC Dev Site is Live In-Reply-To: <1117634038.8184.32.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1117634038.8184.32.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <926a26383be63e4dda5e671d273b4d3f@axxs.org> Fantastic. Thanks tongmaster and pabs. I started playing around with the front page. I'll start going through the modules and suggesting ones we need, there are a lot of obvious things like audio, video, photo uploads that are obvious, others that aren't. The next mimc meeting (thursday week) is going to be a working bee of what we want the site to be but there are plenty of things to get going on in the meantime. If other sign up for logins I can approve and then they can approve others but we also need to work out the hierarchy of permissions for things like this. In terms of layout that is something we can do at the next meeting, see if there are any possibilities for getting away from the simple 3 columns design. sf.indymedia.org is one interesting example. Dan I get the impression you are a bit of a designer? In any case we are going to need a newswire and features section of some sort. i read through all the modules and thse are the ones i reckon we would have, people may disagree and there are plenty that I don't understand too that i may be wrong about. torrent creation for audio/video files pod casting capabilities - audio rss feeds by user for podcasting weekly mailout of events and features audio, video, photo uploads Blog Theme Book Review Buddylist captcha Chatbox Comment closer Download Counter Event Ezmlm Feedback Filemanager? do we need this? Flexinode FOAF? form_mail? i think for automating weekly news outputs? we need to send calendar and features once a week basically. Htmlarea Image Internationalization Live Discussion mail? Mass Mailer - again for the weekly emails, i have no idea which is the best. Notify Organic groups paypal framework SiteMenu Summary Subscriptions SXIP Syndication there's a whole bunch of taxonomy stuff that i dont get. Theme Editor TinyMCE WYSIWYG Editor troll volunteer As far as the catagories etc. stuff go I assume we would keep it pretty much the same as we currently have on melb indy. I'd be up for getting rid of the 'miscelaneous' catagory, i don't think its particularly useful. we may want to add more in, i don't know, but the ones that are currently there can definetly start to go in. That should get the ball rolling a little more. That should be enough for you to do for the moment tongmaster? thanks a bunch and. On 01/06/2005, at 7:23 PM, TongMaster wrote: > Sorry for the wait but you can visit it here: > > http://melbourne.devel.indymedia.org/ > > to see nothing but a standard drupal page :) > > Well, that's the start. Pabs and I locked horns last night and > mid-wifed > this site. There is currently only one account (the administrator). So > we need to start thinking about accounts and for whom etc. Themes, > themes to base the site on and customise for Melbourne. Some ideas are > here: > > http://drupal.org/project/Themes > and here: > http://themes.drupal.org/ > > The easiest way to go about this is to have some creative type develop > a > style and then I can apply it to an already developed theme and run it > from there. > > You'll also need to start thinking about account creation, moderation, > access control, desired modules: http://drupal.org/project/Modules - > unless I'm told a certain module is required, it won't go up :) > > You'll also need to think about taxonomy (or > categories/topics/heirachy) > etc. Access control lists, classes of users (if any) and oh, so much > more ;) > > You've probably already thought about most of these things, so let's > get > the ball rolling. > > -- > Journalist: "Will the number of pages in the Tax Act be reduced by the > introduction of a GST?" > John Howard: "Yes it will". > --John Howard (interview Alan Jones Radio 2UE, 14 August 1998) > > The Truth: ". . . the Tax Act has grown from 3,000 to over 9,000 pages > and an additional 2.5 million words have been inserted into the Tax > Act, > since 1 July 2000." > --National Tax & Accountants' Association, 15 August 2002 > _______________________________________________ > Imc-melbourne-geeks mailing list > Imc-melbourne-geeks at lists.cat.org.au > http://lists.cat.org.au/cgi-bin/m/listinfo/imc-melbourne-geeks > From harrytuttle123 at yahoo.com Sun Jun 5 10:51:29 2005 From: harrytuttle123 at yahoo.com (harry tuttle) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 03:51:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Imc-melbourne-geeks] Melb IMC Dev Site is Live In-Reply-To: <926a26383be63e4dda5e671d273b4d3f@axxs.org> Message-ID: <20050605105129.40732.qmail@web60514.mail.yahoo.com> Hey guys, this is excellent! Thanks for all your work. And is going to go through the admin and front end of the site with me so that I can play with it. I think he has covered the basic functionality that I can see so far. Look forward to seeing it develop and looking at the possibilities. Harry --- and wrote: > Fantastic. Thanks tongmaster and pabs. > I started playing around with the front page. I'll > start going through > the modules and suggesting ones we need, there are a > lot of obvious > things like audio, video, photo uploads that are > obvious, others that > aren't. > The next mimc meeting (thursday week) is going to be > a working bee of > what we want the site to be but there are plenty of > things to get going > on in the meantime. > If other sign up for logins I can approve and then > they can approve > others but we also need to work out the hierarchy of > permissions for > things like this. > In terms of layout that is something we can do at > the next meeting, see > if there are any possibilities for getting away from > the simple 3 > columns design. sf.indymedia.org is one interesting > example. Dan I get > the impression you are a bit of a designer? In any > case we are going to > need a newswire and features section of some sort. > > i read through all the modules and thse are the ones > i reckon we would > have, people may disagree and there are plenty that > I don't understand > too that i may be wrong about. > > torrent creation for audio/video files > pod casting capabilities - audio rss feeds by user > for podcasting > weekly mailout of events and features > audio, video, photo uploads > Blog Theme > Book Review > Buddylist > captcha > Chatbox > Comment closer > Download Counter > Event > Ezmlm > Feedback > Filemanager? do we need this? > Flexinode > FOAF? > form_mail? i think for automating weekly news > outputs? we need to send > calendar and features once a week basically. > Htmlarea > Image > Internationalization > Live Discussion > mail? > Mass Mailer - again for the weekly emails, i have no > idea which is the > best. > Notify > Organic groups > paypal framework > SiteMenu > Summary > Subscriptions > SXIP > Syndication > there's a whole bunch of taxonomy stuff that i dont > get. > Theme Editor > TinyMCE WYSIWYG Editor > troll > volunteer > > As far as the catagories etc. stuff go I assume we > would keep it pretty > much the same as we currently have on melb indy. I'd > be up for getting > rid of the 'miscelaneous' catagory, i don't think > its particularly > useful. we may want to add more in, i don't know, > but the ones that are > currently there can definetly start to go in. > > That should get the ball rolling a little more. That > should be enough > for you to do for the moment tongmaster? > thanks a bunch > and. > > > > On 01/06/2005, at 7:23 PM, TongMaster wrote: > > > Sorry for the wait but you can visit it here: > > > > http://melbourne.devel.indymedia.org/ > > > > to see nothing but a standard drupal page :) > > > > Well, that's the start. Pabs and I locked horns > last night and > > mid-wifed > > this site. There is currently only one account > (the administrator). So > > we need to start thinking about accounts and for > whom etc. Themes, > > themes to base the site on and customise for > Melbourne. Some ideas are > > here: > > > > http://drupal.org/project/Themes > > and here: > > http://themes.drupal.org/ > > > > The easiest way to go about this is to have some > creative type develop > > a > > style and then I can apply it to an already > developed theme and run it > > from there. > > > > You'll also need to start thinking about account > creation, moderation, > > access control, desired modules: > http://drupal.org/project/Modules - > > unless I'm told a certain module is required, it > won't go up :) > > > > You'll also need to think about taxonomy (or > > categories/topics/heirachy) > > etc. Access control lists, classes of users (if > any) and oh, so much > > more ;) > > > > You've probably already thought about most of > these things, so let's > > get > > the ball rolling. > > > > -- > > Journalist: "Will the number of pages in the Tax > Act be reduced by the > > introduction of a GST?" > > John Howard: "Yes it will". > > --John Howard (interview Alan Jones Radio 2UE, 14 > August 1998) > > > > The Truth: ". . . the Tax Act has grown from 3,000 > to over 9,000 pages > > and an additional 2.5 million words have been > inserted into the Tax > > Act, > > since 1 July 2000." > > --National Tax & Accountants' Association, 15 > August 2002 > > _______________________________________________ > > Imc-melbourne-geeks mailing list > > Imc-melbourne-geeks at lists.cat.org.au > > > http://lists.cat.org.au/cgi-bin/m/listinfo/imc-melbourne-geeks > > > > _______________________________________________ > Imc-melbourne-geeks mailing list > Imc-melbourne-geeks at lists.cat.org.au > http://lists.cat.org.au/cgi-bin/m/listinfo/imc-melbourne-geeks > __________________________________ Discover Yahoo! Have fun online with music videos, cool games, IM and more. Check it out! http://discover.yahoo.com/online.html From dan.mackinlay at gmail.com Sun Jun 5 11:24:45 2005 From: dan.mackinlay at gmail.com (DAN mackinlay) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 18:24:45 +0700 Subject: [Imc-melbourne-geeks] Melb IMC Dev Site is Live In-Reply-To: <926a26383be63e4dda5e671d273b4d3f@axxs.org> References: <1117634038.8184.32.camel@localhost.localdomain> <926a26383be63e4dda5e671d273b4d3f@axxs.org> Message-ID: ok folks. back in communicaton. nice work, tongmaster. i've had no computer for abut a month now, sorry... took delivery of a temp replacemnt today, and all of satans curses upon the 5 week estimated turnaround of thai applecare. Um back to it: and, that list has too many modules. Especally if we are considering custom hacks and we want to maitain security, we want to keep as close to the minimal set of well-audited core modules as possible. many of the module on that list interact confusing and prvide overlapping or conflicting features. rather than looking at the cool features we might have, i reckon maybe develop a tight lean site that works and add functionality as we get it going. one way to do this i to have a minimal feature list, the bare minimum to get the thing kicking, and an ideal feature list, that we will work towards. here is my stab at the minimal set of modules we should start with (someone else wanna detial requiremants for the podcasting/RSS enclosure and torrent stuff, i haven't payed with it > Event > Filemanager? do we need this? > Flexinode > Htmlarea > Image > there's a whole bunch of taxonomy stuff that i dont get. and a lot of the capabilities we were discussing before abut peer reviewing content can be provided by the very cool module > Organic groups but we would have to decide a lot about HOW the site worked before installing it, that module changes everything about the content access. maybe we should hang back from coding for a deep breath for a moment and deceid what capabilities we want from the site. what IS the minimal feature set? What are we aiming for long term? Most of my work with drupal has been in taxonomy. d'ya have any particular questions about it? ---dan() > torrent creation for audio/video files > pod casting capabilities - audio rss feeds by user for podcasting > weekly mailout of events and features > audio, video, photo uploads > Blog Theme > Book Review > Buddylist > captcha > Chatbox > Comment closer > Download Counter > Event > Ezmlm > Feedback > Filemanager? do we need this? > Flexinode > FOAF? > form_mail? i think for automating weekly news outputs? we need to send > calendar and features once a week basically. > Htmlarea > Image > Internationalization > Live Discussion > mail? > Mass Mailer - again for the weekly emails, i have no idea which is the > best. > Notify > Organic groups > paypal framework > SiteMenu > Summary > Subscriptions > SXIP > Syndication > there's a whole bunch of taxonomy stuff that i dont get. > Theme Editor > TinyMCE WYSIWYG Editor > troll > volunteer > > As far as the catagories etc. stuff go I assume we would keep it pretty > much the same as we currently have on melb indy. I'd be up for getting > rid of the 'miscelaneous' catagory, i don't think its particularly > useful. we may want to add more in, i don't know, but the ones that are > currently there can definetly start to go in. > > That should get the ball rolling a little more. That should be enough > for you to do for the moment tongmaster? > thanks a bunch > and. > > > > On 01/06/2005, at 7:23 PM, TongMaster wrote: > > > Sorry for the wait but you can visit it here: > > > > http://melbourne.devel.indymedia.org/ > > > > to see nothing but a standard drupal page :) > > > > Well, that's the start. Pabs and I locked horns last night and > > mid-wifed > > this site. There is currently only one account (the administrator). So > > we need to start thinking about accounts and for whom etc. Themes, > > themes to base the site on and customise for Melbourne. Some ideas are > > here: > > > > http://drupal.org/project/Themes > > and here: > > http://themes.drupal.org/ > > > > The easiest way to go about this is to have some creative type develop > > a > > style and then I can apply it to an already developed theme and run it > > from there. > > > > You'll also need to start thinking about account creation, moderation, > > access control, desired modules: http://drupal.org/project/Modules - > > unless I'm told a certain module is required, it won't go up :) > > > > You'll also need to think about taxonomy (or > > categories/topics/heirachy) > > etc. Access control lists, classes of users (if any) and oh, so much > > more ;) > > > > You've probably already thought about most of these things, so let's > > get > > the ball rolling. > > > > -- > > Journalist: "Will the number of pages in the Tax Act be reduced by the > > introduction of a GST?" > > John Howard: "Yes it will". > > --John Howard (interview Alan Jones Radio 2UE, 14 August 1998) > > > > The Truth: ". . . the Tax Act has grown from 3,000 to over 9,000 pages > > and an additional 2.5 million words have been inserted into the Tax > > Act, > > since 1 July 2000." > > --National Tax & Accountants' Association, 15 August 2002 > > _______________________________________________ > > Imc-melbourne-geeks mailing list > > Imc-melbourne-geeks at lists.cat.org.au > > http://lists.cat.org.au/cgi-bin/m/listinfo/imc-melbourne-geeks > > > > _______________________________________________ > Imc-melbourne-geeks mailing list > Imc-melbourne-geeks at lists.cat.org.au > http://lists.cat.org.au/cgi-bin/m/listinfo/imc-melbourne-geeks > From and at axxs.org Sun Jun 5 15:26:53 2005 From: and at axxs.org (and) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 01:26:53 +1000 Subject: [Imc-melbourne-geeks] Melb IMC Dev Site is Live In-Reply-To: References: <1117634038.8184.32.camel@localhost.localdomain> <926a26383be63e4dda5e671d273b4d3f@axxs.org> Message-ID: Hey, On 05/06/2005, at 9:24 PM, DAN mackinlay wrote: > > and, that list has too many modules. Thought so :) That was me going through all the modules, most of which i didn't understand, and picking out what i thought we might need, so whittling down is good :) > > Especally if we are considering custom hacks and we want to maitain > security, we want to keep as close to the minimal set of well-audited > core modules as possible. many of the module on that list interact > confusing and prvide overlapping or conflicting features. sounds good. > > rather than looking at the cool features we might have, i reckon > maybe develop a tight lean site that works and add functionality as we > get it going. > one way to do this i to have a minimal feature list, the bare minimum > to get the thing kicking, and an ideal feature list, that we will work > towards. sounds sensible. I can try and work on this, hopefully from thursday weeks meeting we can spec this up better but we can also work on it here and in the wiki. > > here is my stab at the minimal set of modules we should start with > (someone else wanna detial requiremants for the podcasting/RSS > enclosure and torrent stuff, i haven't payed with it I am not the torrent stuff even exists. I was thinking it might be useful for audio/video uploads during special events when lots of people use the site, not much use day to day, in which case maybe its something that can be done by hand as the need arises. The podcasting stuff was from conversations with trying to get 3cr types uploading there audio, being able to give them their own rss feed of text and audio might be a good way to get them into using the site more. make sense? from chatting to tongmaster he seemed to think it was possible. > >> Event >> Filemanager? do we need this? >> Flexinode >> Htmlarea >> Image >> there's a whole bunch of taxonomy stuff that i dont get. what exactly does file manager do? > > and a lot of the capabilities we were discussing before abut peer > reviewing content can be provided by the very cool module >> Organic groups > but we would have to decide a lot about HOW the site worked before > installing it, that module changes everything about the content > access. > > maybe we should hang back from coding for a deep breath for a moment > and deceid what capabilities we want from the site. what IS the > minimal feature set? What are we aiming for long term? I think in terms of getting coding anything that is currently happening on the melb imc site needs to happen on new site (audio/video/image uploads, calendar, features, newswire, search, cities list, syndication etc.) I guess the more difficult thing is to decide on new things we want but I think those things can be started on at least. In terms of the long term I think this post from anarchogeek is a good talking point There is an evolutionary leap that indymedia needs to make to maintain its relevance so I think we are talking about creating a more sophisticated social relation through communication technologies that allows a more self-organised movement ecology to evolve. (enough jargon? :) This means evolving indymedia into more of a communications and organising tool (something that trolling has managed to near wipe out) and from that increasing the depth and significance of the content. I think we are aiming to find ways to limit the trolling and re-establish trust between users of the site. We are trying to give people more control over the way they receive and contribute content and develop it. Having a look at quebec indymedia might be useful for people as they already use drupal. http://quebec.indymedia.org/en/index.php > > Most of my work with drupal has been in taxonomy. d'ya have any > particular questions about it? just trying to understand what it is? :) did you have access to the site at all dan? thanks for getting us thinking. hopefully we can get the feature set down soon. and. > > ---dan() > > >> torrent creation for audio/video files >> pod casting capabilities - audio rss feeds by user for podcasting >> weekly mailout of events and features >> audio, video, photo uploads >> Blog Theme >> Book Review >> Buddylist >> captcha >> Chatbox >> Comment closer >> Download Counter >> Event >> Ezmlm >> Feedback >> Filemanager? do we need this? >> Flexinode >> FOAF? >> form_mail? i think for automating weekly news outputs? we need to send >> calendar and features once a week basically. >> Htmlarea >> Image >> Internationalization >> Live Discussion >> mail? >> Mass Mailer - again for the weekly emails, i have no idea which is the >> best. >> Notify >> Organic groups >> paypal framework >> SiteMenu >> Summary >> Subscriptions >> SXIP >> Syndication >> there's a whole bunch of taxonomy stuff that i dont get. >> Theme Editor >> TinyMCE WYSIWYG Editor >> troll >> volunteer >> >> As far as the catagories etc. stuff go I assume we would keep it >> pretty >> much the same as we currently have on melb indy. I'd be up for getting >> rid of the 'miscelaneous' catagory, i don't think its particularly >> useful. we may want to add more in, i don't know, but the ones that >> are >> currently there can definetly start to go in. >> >> That should get the ball rolling a little more. That should be enough >> for you to do for the moment tongmaster? >> thanks a bunch >> and. >> >> >> >> On 01/06/2005, at 7:23 PM, TongMaster wrote: >> >>> Sorry for the wait but you can visit it here: >>> >>> http://melbourne.devel.indymedia.org/ >>> >>> to see nothing but a standard drupal page :) >>> >>> Well, that's the start. Pabs and I locked horns last night and >>> mid-wifed >>> this site. There is currently only one account (the administrator). >>> So >>> we need to start thinking about accounts and for whom etc. Themes, >>> themes to base the site on and customise for Melbourne. Some ideas >>> are >>> here: >>> >>> http://drupal.org/project/Themes >>> and here: >>> http://themes.drupal.org/ >>> >>> The easiest way to go about this is to have some creative type >>> develop >>> a >>> style and then I can apply it to an already developed theme and run >>> it >>> from there. >>> >>> You'll also need to start thinking about account creation, >>> moderation, >>> access control, desired modules: http://drupal.org/project/Modules - >>> unless I'm told a certain module is required, it won't go up :) >>> >>> You'll also need to think about taxonomy (or >>> categories/topics/heirachy) >>> etc. Access control lists, classes of users (if any) and oh, so much >>> more ;) >>> >>> You've probably already thought about most of these things, so let's >>> get >>> the ball rolling. >>> >>> -- >>> Journalist: "Will the number of pages in the Tax Act be reduced by >>> the >>> introduction of a GST?" >>> John Howard: "Yes it will". >>> --John Howard (interview Alan Jones Radio 2UE, 14 August 1998) >>> >>> The Truth: ". . . the Tax Act has grown from 3,000 to over 9,000 >>> pages >>> and an additional 2.5 million words have been inserted into the Tax >>> Act, >>> since 1 July 2000." >>> --National Tax & Accountants' Association, 15 August 2002 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Imc-melbourne-geeks mailing list >>> Imc-melbourne-geeks at lists.cat.org.au >>> http://lists.cat.org.au/cgi-bin/m/listinfo/imc-melbourne-geeks >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Imc-melbourne-geeks mailing list >> Imc-melbourne-geeks at lists.cat.org.au >> http://lists.cat.org.au/cgi-bin/m/listinfo/imc-melbourne-geeks >> > _______________________________________________ > Imc-melbourne-geeks mailing list > Imc-melbourne-geeks at lists.cat.org.au > http://lists.cat.org.au/cgi-bin/m/listinfo/imc-melbourne-geeks > From tongmaster at arseclown.tv Sun Jun 5 15:46:33 2005 From: tongmaster at arseclown.tv (TongMaster) Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 01:46:33 +1000 Subject: [Imc-melbourne-geeks] Melb IMC Dev Site is Live In-Reply-To: References: <1117634038.8184.32.camel@localhost.localdomain> <926a26383be63e4dda5e671d273b4d3f@axxs.org> Message-ID: <1117986393.12751.27.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2005-06-06 at 01:26 +1000, and wrote: > I am not the torrent stuff even exists. I was thinking it might be > useful for audio/video uploads during special events when lots of > people use the site, not much use day to day, in which case maybe its > something that can be done by hand as the need arises. You wouldn't use torrent for this, you'd use Free Software streaming and mark up technologies such as: Flumotion: http://www.flumotion.net/ Annodex: http://annodex.net/ Some technologies that are very useful to Indymedia and later in the year Cat at lyst will be holding some Annodex workshops specifically with Indymedia in mind. > The podcasting > stuff was from conversations with trying to get 3cr types uploading > there audio, being able to give them their own rss feed of text and > audio might be a good way to get them into using the site more. make > sense? from chatting to tongmaster he seemed to think it was possible. RSS feeds are certainly a core component of Drupal and there is an RSS feed available for every element, if I recall correctly. -- "I can promise you that we will follow policies which will, over a period of time, bring down the foreign debt . . . our first priority in Government economically will be to tackle the current account deficit." --John Howard (Doorstop interview, Debt Truck Launch, 20 September 1995) The Truth: Foreign debt was $361 billion at the end of September 2003, an increase of 90 percent on the September 1995 level. The current account deficit was $11.9 billion at the end of September 2003, an increase of 112.5 per cent on the September 1995 level. --Australian Bureau of Statistics (ABS@, Time Series Spreadsheets (Balance of Payments and Investment Position, Australia 5302.0, Reserve Bank of Australia (H) Bulletin, Current Account)) From dan.mackinlay at gmail.com Sun Jun 5 17:10:12 2005 From: dan.mackinlay at gmail.com (DAN mackinlay) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 00:10:12 +0700 Subject: [Imc-melbourne-geeks] Melb IMC Dev Site is Live In-Reply-To: <1117986393.12751.27.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1117634038.8184.32.camel@localhost.localdomain> <926a26383be63e4dda5e671d273b4d3f@axxs.org> <1117986393.12751.27.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: thanks for the annodex links tongmaster. looks evocative. > > I am not the torrent stuff even exists. I was thinking it might be > > useful for audio/video uploads during special events when lots of > > people use the site, > > You wouldn't use torrent for this, you'd use Free Software streaming and > mark up technologies such as: > > Flumotion: http://www.flumotion.net/ > Annodex: http://annodex.net/ > > Some technologies that are very useful to Indymedia and later in the > year Cat at lyst will be holding some Annodex workshops specifically with > Indymedia in mind. indeed they do look useful - neither of them addresses the distributed download niche though, no? and neither of them looks on the face of it incompatible with torrent. if bandwidth during major webcasts is an issue (i know nothing about the server or its connection ar finances) maybe we would want to look at torrent here. correct me if i've missed something... has bandwidth beena problem before and? > > The podcasting > > stuff was from conversations with trying to get 3cr types uploading > > there audio, being able to give them their own rss feed of text and > > audio might be a good way to get them into using the site more. make > > sense? from chatting to tongmaster he seemed to think it was possible. > > RSS feeds are certainly a core component of Drupal and there is an RSS > feed available for every element, if I recall correctly. check >> Filemanager? do we need this? >what exactly does file manager do? stuff you would expect drupal to do for itself, mostly. stores media files on the filesystem. neccessary if you wish to have multple media files associated with each node. it also provides protection against malicious/incompetent users overwriting each others' file uploads >> Most of my work with drupal has been in taxonomy. d'ya have any >> particular questions about it? >just trying to understand what it is? :) >did you have access to the site at all dan? thanks for getting us >thinking. hopefully we can get the feature set down soon. taxonomies are any form of classification. they are a crazy swiss army knife kinda tool. maybe an example would be good. looking at the quebec IMC, it looks like they hove two different uses for taxonomies on ther front page. firstly they categorise published article into 'types': Newswire Analysis Communiques They also categorise articles into 'themes' in one of the sidebars: ?Agriculture (241) ?WB -IMF (99) ?CMAQ (81) ?Community Work (233) ?Communications (351) ...etc both these different schemes are used to group articles on the front page in different ways for ease of navigation. http://drupal.org/node/22274 has some good further reading on taxonomies. >> maybe we should hang back from coding for a deep breath for a moment >> and deceid what capabilities we want from the site. what IS the >> minimal feature set? What are we aiming for long term? > >I think in terms of getting coding anything that is currently happening >on the melb imc site needs to happen on new site (audio/video/image >uploads, calendar, features, newswire, search, cities list, syndication >etc.) I guess the more difficult thing is to decide on new things we >want but I think those things can be started on at least. we can probably get all that happening without any coding, or at least get them happening in _some_ form. where it might get tricky is HOW all these features are implemented. what sort of submission queue do we need ta have for articles? haw do we want to rank stuff for the front page? do we want to have community spam/troll filtering? what IS the ideal moderation system? what lort of user system do we want to have? those sorts of details will take some doing. From and at axxs.org Mon Jun 6 14:12:32 2005 From: and at axxs.org (and) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 00:12:32 +1000 Subject: [Imc-melbourne-geeks] Melb IMC Dev Site is Live In-Reply-To: References: <1117634038.8184.32.camel@localhost.localdomain> <926a26383be63e4dda5e671d273b4d3f@axxs.org> <1117986393.12751.27.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1d7c4408311fd83c9b1c6f1192383aaa@axxs.org> Hey, yeah the annodex stuff looks really interesting but not really what I was thinking of. The indybay site is interesting in this regard http://indybay.org/torrents/ Realistically I think torrents would be useful on rare occasion thing anyway so by hand might suffice and equally i am working with dave (who runs the melb indyserver and is on this list) and anna (who i think you know dan) on an online video site at the moment which will include torrents etc. so perhaps this is all redundant as large video files can be hosted there and melb indy can continue hosting small stuff as it always has. We are not really going anywhere near our limit as far as i know in terms of bandwidth. that right dave? > > looking at the quebec IMC, it looks like they hove two different uses > for taxonomies on ther front page. > firstly they categorise published article into 'types': > Newswire > Analysis > Communiques > > They also categorise articles into 'themes' in one of the sidebars: > > ?Agriculture (241) > ?WB -IMF (99) > ?CMAQ (81) > ?Community Work (233) > ?Communications (351) > ...etc > > both these different schemes are used to group articles on the front > page in different ways for ease of navigation. ok, thanks for that, so my understand is that we would want that as apart from the topic categories we have been talking about dividing articles into news, opinion, press release, review. can people think of others? Do we have local and global also? Do we keep that publish questionaire? > > http://drupal.org/node/22274 has some good further reading on > taxonomies. > >>> maybe we should hang back from coding for a deep breath for a moment >>> and deceid what capabilities we want from the site. what IS the >>> minimal feature set? What are we aiming for long term? >> >> I think in terms of getting coding anything that is currently >> happening >> on the melb imc site needs to happen on new site (audio/video/image >> uploads, calendar, features, newswire, search, cities list, >> syndication >> etc.) I guess the more difficult thing is to decide on new things we >> want but I think those things can be started on at least. > > we can probably get all that happening without any coding, or at least > get them happening in _some_ form. where it might get tricky is HOW > all these features are implemented. what sort of submission queue do > we need ta have for articles? haw do we want to rank stuff for the > front page? do we want to have community spam/troll filtering? what IS > the ideal moderation system? what lort of user system do we want to > have? those sorts of details will take some doing. From conversations we were talking about have a tiered newswire like the way we have now (local and crossposts/other). We probably want to change how the tiers work and the naming. In terms of the submission queue I imaged that logged in or trusted users could post straight to the top of the wire and other users went to a non-trusted wire where they could be bumped up or remain there. non logged in users would still be able to post to this area. is that possible in drupal? We may want to develop a more sophisticated work flow than this but this would be the basics in my mind. others? How would community troll filtering work? The ideal moderation system is none :) but I guess part of this move to drupal comes from a lot of the moderation falling on a small group of people and then need to find other ways to do things built into the system that gives more space to trusted users over trolls. I will try and wikify some of this info soon so it is not so long and drawn out. And. > _______________________________________________ > Imc-melbourne-geeks mailing list > Imc-melbourne-geeks at lists.cat.org.au > http://lists.cat.org.au/cgi-bin/m/listinfo/imc-melbourne-geeks > From tongmaster at arseclown.tv Mon Jun 6 14:21:02 2005 From: tongmaster at arseclown.tv (TongMaster) Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 00:21:02 +1000 Subject: [Imc-melbourne-geeks] Melb IMC Dev Site is Live In-Reply-To: <1d7c4408311fd83c9b1c6f1192383aaa@axxs.org> References: <1117634038.8184.32.camel@localhost.localdomain> <926a26383be63e4dda5e671d273b4d3f@axxs.org> <1117986393.12751.27.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1d7c4408311fd83c9b1c6f1192383aaa@axxs.org> Message-ID: <1118067662.8055.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2005-06-07 at 00:12 +1000, and wrote: > In terms of the submission queue I imaged that logged in or trusted > users could post straight to the top of the wire and other users went > to a non-trusted wire where they could be bumped up or remain there. > non logged in users would still be able to post to this area. is that > possible in drupal? Yes. You create say, an "editor" role that can post directly and approve the queued posts of plain "authenticated" users whose posts go to a moderated queue (or wire?). You could also allow anonymous users to create posts and comments, if you wanted and their posts would be treated the same as "authenticated" users. -- "The coalition will maintain expenditure on labour market programs." -- John Howard, February 1996 Labour market programmes were slashed by $1800 million over the next four years. From and at axxs.org Mon Jun 6 14:46:17 2005 From: and at axxs.org (and) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 00:46:17 +1000 Subject: [Imc-melbourne-geeks] rhode island imc ... Message-ID: <9fc27bc99a3f20834db36ce6e50b03a6@axxs.org> also uses drupal http://riimc.org/ From axxs at axxs.org Mon Jun 6 23:19:33 2005 From: axxs at axxs.org (Dave Fregon) Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 09:19:33 +1000 Subject: [Imc-melbourne-geeks] DOS? Message-ID: <42A4DA05.7070808@axxs.org> Melbourne Indymedia site has done 285Gig of traffic so far this month .. .. last month was 85Gig .. .. that's a lot for 7 days .. wonder if something is hitting it script-wise .. compare to NYC indy for example, that's done 12gig this month .... Dave From emilyclark00 at hotmail.com Mon Jun 6 23:27:15 2005 From: emilyclark00 at hotmail.com (Emily Clark) Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 09:27:15 +1000 Subject: [Imc-melbourne-geeks] DOS? In-Reply-To: <42A4DA05.7070808@axxs.org> Message-ID: Thanks to Naomi Robson and her trash mouth perhaps? http://melbourne.indymedia.org/news/2005/05/92033.php >From: Dave Fregon >Reply-To: imc-melbourne-geeks at lists.cat.org.au >To: imc-melbourne-geeks at lists.cat.org.au >CC: sysadmins at axxs.org >Subject: [Imc-melbourne-geeks] DOS? >Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 09:19:33 +1000 > >Melbourne Indymedia site has done 285Gig of traffic so far this month .. > >.. last month was 85Gig .. > >.. that's a lot for 7 days .. wonder if something is hitting it script-wise >.. compare to NYC indy for example, that's done 12gig this month .... > >Dave >_______________________________________________ >Imc-melbourne-geeks mailing list >Imc-melbourne-geeks at lists.cat.org.au >http://lists.cat.org.au/cgi-bin/m/listinfo/imc-melbourne-geeks _________________________________________________________________ Free wallpapers on Level 9 http://level9.ninemsn.com.au/default.aspx From axxs at axxs.org Mon Jun 6 23:41:00 2005 From: axxs at axxs.org (Dave Fregon) Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 09:41:00 +1000 Subject: [Imc-melbourne-geeks] DOS? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42A4DF0C.7030205@axxs.org> Emily Clark wrote: > Thanks to Naomi Robson and her trash mouth perhaps? > > http://melbourne.indymedia.org/news/2005/05/92033.php great!! I hope so :) cool if it was .. will check the logs more thoroughly to confirm .. way cool :) there's heaps of bandwidth still there .. and considering an unmetered 100mbit port for the server .. so it's a non-issue other than if it was something being attempted on spamming the site .. Dave From and at axxs.org Tue Jun 7 00:01:02 2005 From: and at axxs.org (and) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 10:01:02 +1000 Subject: [Imc-melbourne-geeks] DOS? In-Reply-To: <42A4DF0C.7030205@axxs.org> References: <42A4DF0C.7030205@axxs.org> Message-ID: <7cb19f1554196d2bd5549bb0ddf0730d@axxs.org> The video is only 13meg, can't imagine it has been downloaded 10 000 times, or more (its too early for maths). Be nice though. How big is the site all together, only like 10gig yeah? I have been noticing the site being a bit slow of late. Do we have stats working so as to take a closer look? I remember previously the average being about 20 gig in traffic a month.Theres no way we could be getting more traffic than NY imho. strange... and. On 07/06/2005, at 9:41 AM, Dave Fregon wrote: > Emily Clark wrote: >> Thanks to Naomi Robson and her trash mouth perhaps? >> http://melbourne.indymedia.org/news/2005/05/92033.php > > great!! I hope so :) cool if it was .. will check the logs more > thoroughly to confirm .. way cool :) > > there's heaps of bandwidth still there .. and considering an unmetered > 100mbit port for the server .. so it's a non-issue other than if it > was something being attempted on spamming the site .. > > Dave > _______________________________________________ > Imc-melbourne-geeks mailing list > Imc-melbourne-geeks at lists.cat.org.au > http://lists.cat.org.au/cgi-bin/m/listinfo/imc-melbourne-geeks > From pmargin at optusnet.com.au Wed Jun 8 22:38:40 2005 From: pmargin at optusnet.com.au (pmargin at optusnet.com.au) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 08:38:40 +1000 Subject: [Imc-melbourne-geeks] re Melb IMC Dev Site is Live Message-ID: Hi, my name is Steve, and I'm here at and's invitation, hope that's OK. I was involved with Melbourne Indymedia for a bit around 2002, and got interested again after and mentioned the planned move to Drupal. I work in a university IT faculty, teaching and researching in information management, including classification systems. From what I hear, a number of people on the list have lots of very practical experience with Drupal and taxonomy, so I'm playing catch up on that front. All the same, I'm keen to help out in some way if I can ... From tongmaster at arseclown.tv Mon Jun 6 03:37:56 2005 From: tongmaster at arseclown.tv (TongMaster) Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 13:37:56 +1000 Subject: [Imc-melbourne-geeks] Melb IMC Dev Site is Live In-Reply-To: References: <1117634038.8184.32.camel@localhost.localdomain> <926a26383be63e4dda5e671d273b4d3f@axxs.org> <1117986393.12751.27.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1118029076.10323.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2005-06-06 at 00:10 +0700, DAN mackinlay wrote: > indeed they do look useful - neither of them addresses the distributed > download niche though, no? No, one is video streaming (flumotion) the other is video mark up and hyper linking, think what HTML does to text and that's what Annodex does for video. For a webcast Flumotion is the go but for download and view later, torrent is the go. Different solutions for different services. Flumotion also does live streaming of video feeds (as seen at LCA recently) giving real time access to an action that's happening right now. Kind of like a "Live" TV broadcast but served up via the net. Bloody useful. We could have done "Baxter TV" for example (I wasn't ready in time this year but next year......) I imagine Flumotion and Annodex as a natural progression with the websites. Text and video newswires...... > and neither of them looks on the face of it > incompatible with torrent. No, complimentary really. -- We had clear intelligence assessments that Iraq had a weapons of mass destruction capability." -- John Howard, October 3, 2003 "Australian intelligence agencies made it clear to the Government all along that Iraq did not have a massive WMD programme. I will go so far as to say that the material was going straight from ONA to the Prime Minister's Office and the dishonesty was occuring somewhere in there." -- Andrew Wilkie, senior intelligence officer May 31st, 2003 From tongmaster at arseclown.tv Thu Jun 9 11:33:26 2005 From: tongmaster at arseclown.tv (TongMaster) Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2005 21:33:26 +1000 Subject: [Imc-melbourne-geeks] re Melb IMC Dev Site is Live In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1118316806.9081.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2005-06-09 at 08:38 +1000, pmargin at optusnet.com.au wrote: > I work in a university IT faculty, teaching and researching in > information management, including classification systems. Probably right where the most help is needed. Welcome Steve :) -- "My government will not introduce any new taxes, and will not increase existing taxes" -- John Howard, 1996. "My fellow Australians, may I have a few moments of your time to say why the new tax system which starts on Saturday is good for Australia." -- John Howard, address to the nation, June, 2000. From dan.mackinlay at gmail.com Thu Jun 9 12:07:16 2005 From: dan.mackinlay at gmail.com (DAN mackinlay) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 19:07:16 +0700 Subject: [Imc-melbourne-geeks] Melb IMC Dev Site is Live In-Reply-To: <1118067662.8055.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1117634038.8184.32.camel@localhost.localdomain> <926a26383be63e4dda5e671d273b4d3f@axxs.org> <1117986393.12751.27.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1d7c4408311fd83c9b1c6f1192383aaa@axxs.org> <1118067662.8055.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: On 6/6/05, TongMaster wrote: > On Tue, 2005-06-07 at 00:12 +1000, and wrote: > > > In terms of the submission queue I imaged that logged in or trusted > > users could post straight to the top of the wire and other users went > > to a non-trusted wire where they could be bumped up or remain there. > > non logged in users would still be able to post to this area. is that > > possible in drupal? > > Yes. You create say, an "editor" role that can post directly and approve > the queued posts of plain "authenticated" users whose posts go to a > moderated queue (or wire?). You could also allow anonymous users to > create posts and comments, if you wanted and their posts would be > treated the same as "authenticated" users. > I recall an earlier posting on the list critiqueing this method, for only allowing editors access to unapproved content. One way around this is community ranking of posts, which is also an option, although one that isn't immune from bots bumping posts to the front page if we let anonymous people post. or possibly some form of combination of workflow ad community moderation. What's everyone's feeling here? From dan.mackinlay at gmail.com Thu Jun 9 12:06:55 2005 From: dan.mackinlay at gmail.com (DAN mackinlay) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 19:06:55 +0700 Subject: [Imc-melbourne-geeks] re Melb IMC Dev Site is Live In-Reply-To: <1118316806.9081.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1118316806.9081.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: dan said: > > looking at the quebec IMC, it looks like they hove two different uses > > for taxonomies on ther front page. > > firstly they categorise published article into 'types': > > Newswire > > Analysis > > Communiques > > > > They also categorise articles into 'themes' in one of the sidebars: > > > > ?Agriculture (241) > > ?WB -IMF (99) > > ?CMAQ (81) > > ?Community Work (233) > > ?Communications (351) > > ...etc > > > > both these different schemes are used to group articles on the front > > page in different ways for ease of navigation. > then and said: > ok, thanks for that, so my understand is that we would want that as > apart from the topic categories we have been talking about dividing > articles into news, opinion, press release, review. can people think of > others? Do we have local and global also? Do we keep that publish > questionaire? (should i be discussing this on the wiki?) My feeling is that we should have regional (oceania) and natiol categories as well as the melbourne one. then we could also integrate external newsfeeds nicely in to our site by giving them such classifications also. i don't understand the 'publish questionnaire' thing, and, what is it? how do you imagine the 'press-release' category, and? whose press-releases would that be for? the imc collective? any organisation? ---dan() > > I work in a university IT faculty, teaching and researching in > > information management, including classification systems. > > Probably right where the most help is needed. Welcome Steve :) From harrytuttle123 at yahoo.com Thu Jun 9 12:49:19 2005 From: harrytuttle123 at yahoo.com (harry tuttle) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 05:49:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Imc-melbourne-geeks] Melb IMC Dev Site is Live In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050609124919.27277.qmail@web60514.mail.yahoo.com> In terms of community moderating, I dont think we are going to know what works best until we try it. I certainly think log ins will help, but they may have unwanted side effects. As far as community rating, this could work, and be great or could be a bit of a bummer. I think it would work best if only logged in and know users could do it. In the end the difficult thing is that we want to be able to experiment with some of the abilities that drupal allows, and see what happens. We currently have a functioning site which we want to make better, and it is difficult to know exactly whether these changes will make it better until we implement them. This isnt really very helpful for planning the site though I guess, other than if it was possible, it would be good to have the flexibility built in. Harry --- DAN mackinlay wrote: > On 6/6/05, TongMaster > wrote: > > On Tue, 2005-06-07 at 00:12 +1000, and wrote: > > > > > In terms of the submission queue I imaged that > logged in or trusted > > > users could post straight to the top of the wire > and other users went > > > to a non-trusted wire where they could be bumped > up or remain there. > > > non logged in users would still be able to post > to this area. is that > > > possible in drupal? > > > > Yes. You create say, an "editor" role that can > post directly and approve > > the queued posts of plain "authenticated" users > whose posts go to a > > moderated queue (or wire?). You could also allow > anonymous users to > > create posts and comments, if you wanted and their > posts would be > > treated the same as "authenticated" users. > > > I recall an earlier posting on the list critiqueing > this method, for > only allowing editors access to unapproved content. > One way around > this is community ranking of posts, which is also an > option, although > one that isn't immune from bots bumping posts to the > front page if we > let anonymous people post. or possibly some form of > combination of > workflow ad community moderation. > > What's everyone's feeling here? > _______________________________________________ > Imc-melbourne-geeks mailing list > Imc-melbourne-geeks at lists.cat.org.au > http://lists.cat.org.au/cgi-bin/m/listinfo/imc-melbourne-geeks > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From and at axxs.org Thu Jun 9 13:41:11 2005 From: and at axxs.org (and) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 23:41:11 +1000 Subject: [Imc-melbourne-geeks] Melb IMC Dev Site is Live In-Reply-To: References: <1117634038.8184.32.camel@localhost.localdomain> <926a26383be63e4dda5e671d273b4d3f@axxs.org> <1117986393.12751.27.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1d7c4408311fd83c9b1c6f1192383aaa@axxs.org> <1118067662.8055.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <3639bf36f60ae6cff2e711edbbb5e7d0@axxs.org> Hey all, read below. On 09/06/2005, at 10:07 PM, DAN mackinlay wrote: > On 6/6/05, TongMaster wrote: >> On Tue, 2005-06-07 at 00:12 +1000, and wrote: >> >>> In terms of the submission queue I imaged that logged in or trusted >>> users could post straight to the top of the wire and other users went >>> to a non-trusted wire where they could be bumped up or remain there. >>> non logged in users would still be able to post to this area. is that >>> possible in drupal? >> >> Yes. You create say, an "editor" role that can post directly and >> approve >> the queued posts of plain "authenticated" users whose posts go to a >> moderated queue (or wire?). You could also allow anonymous users to >> create posts and comments, if you wanted and their posts would be >> treated the same as "authenticated" users. >> > I recall an earlier posting on the list critiqueing this method, for > only allowing editors access to unapproved content. One way around > this is community ranking of posts, which is also an option, although > one that isn't immune from bots bumping posts to the front page if we > let anonymous people post. or possibly some form of combination of > workflow ad community moderation. > > What's everyone's feeling here? I don't recall that critique but i am interested to here it. What tongmaster calls an editor i would call a trusted user, hopefully of which there would eventually be hundreds if not thousands. IMCs have a real trust problem in terms of the validity of what is being posted and the accountability of those who are posting it. Personally i am not sure popularity rankings are the answer, i'd prefer an ever expanding group of people who were able to bring other users within a trusted circle. I am into building a workflow that rewards people who post and build trust rather than letting trolls and the loudest people dominate the site as we have at the moment. So my option is for tierd wires with empowered editors who could bump up postings to appear higher on the site. All content published would still be visible immediately on the site, it would just depend where. We kind of have this already with the local and crossposts sections but is is all done by hand, this would lessen that need. make sense? and. > _______________________________________________ > Imc-melbourne-geeks mailing list > Imc-melbourne-geeks at lists.cat.org.au > http://lists.cat.org.au/cgi-bin/m/listinfo/imc-melbourne-geeks > From and at axxs.org Thu Jun 9 13:53:02 2005 From: and at axxs.org (and) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 23:53:02 +1000 Subject: [Imc-melbourne-geeks] re Melb IMC Dev Site is Live In-Reply-To: References: <1118316806.9081.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: Hey, below again :) On 09/06/2005, at 10:06 PM, DAN mackinlay wrote: > dan said: >>> looking at the quebec IMC, it looks like they hove two different uses >>> for taxonomies on ther front page. >>> firstly they categorise published article into 'types': >>> Newswire >>> Analysis >>> Communiques >>> >>> They also categorise articles into 'themes' in one of the sidebars: >>> >>> ?Agriculture (241) >>> ?WB -IMF (99) >>> ?CMAQ (81) >>> ?Community Work (233) >>> ?Communications (351) >>> ...etc >>> >>> both these different schemes are used to group articles on the front >>> page in different ways for ease of navigation. >> > > then and said: >> ok, thanks for that, so my understand is that we would want that as >> apart from the topic categories we have been talking about dividing >> articles into news, opinion, press release, review. can people think >> of >> others? Do we have local and global also? Do we keep that publish >> questionaire? > > (should i be discussing this on the wiki?) yes probably, i haven't had time to really work on it but go for it if you are up for it http://docs.indymedia.org/view/Local/ImcMelbourneRedev it is pretty scant at the moment > > My feeling is that we should have regional (oceania) and natiol > categories as well as the melbourne one. then we could also integrate > external newsfeeds nicely in to our site by giving them such > classifications also. I am more into an asia pacifc categorisation, most of the imcs in our region are there rather than in oceania. many people have discussed the change of name and at the last melb indy meeting we agreed to a proposal from burma to change 'oceania', 'east asia', 'south asia' and 'asia' into asia-pacific. but anyway, that is not exactly what you are saying i know. I think this is a good idea. if you look at the site at the moment in the top right we have 'oceania' and 'global' if you click on them you get those feeds. incorporating these into the new site would be good, preferably so you didn't actually have to click on them and refresh the wholepage, so they appeared as wires say like the wires down the page in http://sf.indymedia.org. I am not so sure about the need for national catagorisation given that we are a melbourne rather than australian site and are not trying to cover the entire region. > > i don't understand the 'publish questionnaire' thing, and, what is it? > if you hit the publish button on the site there is a questionaire that asks you about the article, this is to help sort articles into crossposts and local/original articles which get given more precedence. > how do you imagine the 'press-release' category, and? whose > press-releases would that be for? the imc collective? any > organisation? from any organisation. i was just throwing it out as an idea, perhaps to distinguish actual stories from press releases. we should really get onto that wiki. nice to see some momentum building. and. > > ---dan() > >>> I work in a university IT faculty, teaching and researching in >>> information management, including classification systems. >> >> Probably right where the most help is needed. Welcome Steve :) > _______________________________________________ > Imc-melbourne-geeks mailing list > Imc-melbourne-geeks at lists.cat.org.au > http://lists.cat.org.au/cgi-bin/m/listinfo/imc-melbourne-geeks > From dan.mackinlay at gmail.com Thu Jun 9 15:22:38 2005 From: dan.mackinlay at gmail.com (DAN mackinlay) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 22:22:38 +0700 Subject: [Imc-melbourne-geeks] re Melb IMC Dev Site is Live In-Reply-To: References: <1118316806.9081.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: On 6/9/05, and wrote: > > (should i be discussing this on the wiki?) > > yes probably, i haven't had time to really work on it but go for it if > you are up for it > http://docs.indymedia.org/view/Local/ImcMelbourneRedev > it is pretty scant at the moment from that URL: > Tech jobs - first job is to set up layout of new site in drupal, second bigger > job is to facilitate all the old info in SF active from the present site to come > over i guess we are avoiding thinking about this.. but do we also want to consider whether we should design our new site to easily take on the content of the old site? is that a valid reason to maintian old categories? brr, there's some gnarly work there. is anyone in this crew conversant with both drupal and sf active at database-table level? or do we want to leave thinking about that till later, design tho best possible s-ite free from connstraint then port the old content over as best we can? > > > > i don't understand the 'publish questionnaire' thing, and, what is it? > > > if you hit the publish button on the site there is a questionaire that > asks you about the article, this is to help sort articles into > crossposts and local/original articles which get given more precedence. do we want to maybe do _this_ with taxonomies? have different categories of 'article origin'? and - "more precendence" - how do you mean? do we wont to hove it chang the order of display, or what site sections an article is displayed in, or something else? ---dan() From dan.mackinlay at gmail.com Thu Jun 9 19:43:48 2005 From: dan.mackinlay at gmail.com (DAN mackinlay) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 02:43:48 +0700 Subject: [Imc-melbourne-geeks] Melb IMC Dev Site is Live In-Reply-To: <3639bf36f60ae6cff2e711edbbb5e7d0@axxs.org> References: <1117634038.8184.32.camel@localhost.localdomain> <926a26383be63e4dda5e671d273b4d3f@axxs.org> <1117986393.12751.27.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1d7c4408311fd83c9b1c6f1192383aaa@axxs.org> <1118067662.8055.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> <3639bf36f60ae6cff2e711edbbb5e7d0@axxs.org> Message-ID: Hey all, read below. > On 09/06/2005, at 10:07 PM, DAN mackinlay wrote: > > On 6/6/05, TongMaster wrote: > >> On Tue, 2005-06-07 at 00:12 +1000, and wrote: > >> > >>> In terms of the submission queue I imaged that logged in or trusted > >>> users could post straight to the top of the wire and other users went > >>> to a non-trusted wire where they could be bumped up or remain there. > >>> non logged in users would still be able to post to this area. is that > >>> possible in drupal? > >> > >> Yes. You create say, an "editor" role that can post directly and > >> approve > >> the queued posts of plain "authenticated" users whose posts go to a > >> moderated queue (or wire?). You could also allow anonymous users to > >> create posts and comments, if you wanted and their posts would be > >> treated the same as "authenticated" users. > >> > > I recall an earlier posting on the list critiqueing this method, for > > only allowing editors access to unapproved content. One way around > > this is community ranking of posts, which is also an option, although > > one that isn't immune from bots bumping posts to the front page if we > > let anonymous people post. or possibly some form of combination of > > workflow ad community moderation. > > > > What's everyone's feeling here? > > I don't recall that critique but i am interested to here it. What > tongmaster calls an editor i would call a trusted user, hopefully of > which there would eventually be hundreds if not thousands. IMCs have a > real trust problem in terms of the validity of what is being posted and > the accountability of those who are posting it. Personally i am not > sure popularity rankings are the answer, i'd prefer an ever expanding > group of people who were able to bring other users within a trusted > circle. I am into building a workflow that rewards people who post and > build trust rather than letting trolls and the loudest people dominate > the site as we have at the moment. So my option is for tierd wires with > empowered editors who could bump up postings to appear higher on the > site. All content published would still be visible immediately on the > site, it would just depend where. We kind of have this already with the > local and crossposts sections but is is all done by hand, this would > lessen that need. > make sense? > and. this is such a hot topic in online communities hell, it's almost the fundamental question of the informaiton age: howe do we work out what's important for us? Slashdot has a sophisticated way of handling news on their site using user trustworthiness ('karma'), and some good expanaitons of how and why: http://slashdot.org/faq/com-mod.shtml plastic.com has a related system, which is contrasted to drupal here: http://drupal.org/node/1260 and kuro5hin has an insanely fussy one: http://www.kuro5hin.org/?op=special;page=moderation http://www.kuro5hin.org/?op=special;page=comments There's a lot af chat on the internet archive about flaws these slashdot-like system, specifically, that it makes more popular posts get ever more popular, and excludes new posters/posts ( http://www.archive.org/iathreads/post-view.php?id=6749 ) so they use an alternate ranking for their content, the batting average (http://www.archive.org/about/help-batting.php http://www.trnmag.com/Stories/2004/072804/Online_popularity_tracked_072804.html ) (incidentally, while i was there i found an interesting link to a system paralleling bitorrent: http://www.archive.org/about/faqs.php#FreeCache ) drupal's node moderation is a system created with slashdot in mind but is somewhat simpler and with less minute gradations of user privilege, and without automatic trusted user generation: http://drupal.org/node/304 http://drupal.org/node/11170 although there's probably a bloody module for that, too --dan() From tongmaster at arseclown.tv Fri Jun 10 01:13:16 2005 From: tongmaster at arseclown.tv (TongMaster) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 11:13:16 +1000 Subject: [Imc-melbourne-geeks] re Melb IMC Dev Site is Live In-Reply-To: References: <1118316806.9081.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1118365996.8237.33.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2005-06-09 at 22:22 +0700, DAN mackinlay wrote: > i guess we are avoiding thinking about this.. but do we also want to > consider whether we should design our new site to easily take on the > content of the old site? is that a valid reason to maintian old > categories? Bringing any old content into Drupal is complete and utter waste of time (more on this below). > brr, there's some gnarly work there. is anyone in this crew conversant > with both drupal and sf active at database-table level? Yep but those skills are not required :) > or do we want to leave thinking about that till later, design tho best > possible s-ite free from connstraint then port the old content over as > best we can? Now you're getting warmer ;) Here's a summary of what we've been discussing at Cat at lyst about how to migrate Indys to Drupal. It is best to think of this new site completely without the constraints of the old. Go forth and create it, set it up without the baggage of the old build a nice clean site and populate it with shiny new content. At least with Sydney IMC, we know it's possible to keep the old content in place, disable posting and just leave it there. all the old links work, there is no change at all to the old content bar the loss of posting abilities. You can then link to the old site from the new and move on. This is also possible with Melbourne IMC. Unlike the old code bases, we have significantly more longevity with Drupal and this should be the last we see of dumping an old site in this way. -- "I can guarantee we're not going to have $100,000 university degree courses." --John Howard (Radio 3AW, 15 October 1999) The Truth: 16 different degrees now cost at least $100,000. From tongmaster at arseclown.tv Fri Jun 10 01:23:48 2005 From: tongmaster at arseclown.tv (TongMaster) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 11:23:48 +1000 Subject: [Imc-melbourne-geeks] Melb IMC Dev Site is Live In-Reply-To: References: <1117634038.8184.32.camel@localhost.localdomain> <926a26383be63e4dda5e671d273b4d3f@axxs.org> <1117986393.12751.27.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1d7c4408311fd83c9b1c6f1192383aaa@axxs.org> <1118067662.8055.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> <3639bf36f60ae6cff2e711edbbb5e7d0@axxs.org> Message-ID: <1118366628.8237.38.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2005-06-10 at 02:43 +0700, DAN mackinlay wrote: > drupal's node moderation is a system created with slashdot in mind but > is somewhat simpler and with less minute gradations of user privilege, > and without automatic trusted user generation: > http://drupal.org/node/304 > http://drupal.org/node/11170 > although there's probably a bloody module for that, too Combinations of modules like "Organic Groups" and "Node Moderator" you may well get very close to what you're after there. -- "My government will not introduce any new taxes, and will not increase existing taxes" -- John Howard, 1996. "My fellow Australians, may I have a few moments of your time to say why the new tax system which starts on Saturday is good for Australia." -- John Howard, address to the nation, June, 2000. From dan.mackinlay at gmail.com Fri Jun 10 04:32:00 2005 From: dan.mackinlay at gmail.com (DAN mackinlay) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 11:32:00 +0700 Subject: [Imc-melbourne-geeks] Melb IMC Dev Site is Live In-Reply-To: <1118366628.8237.38.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1117634038.8184.32.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1117986393.12751.27.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1d7c4408311fd83c9b1c6f1192383aaa@axxs.org> <1118067662.8055.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> <3639bf36f60ae6cff2e711edbbb5e7d0@axxs.org> <1118366628.8237.38.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: On 6/10/05, TongMaster wrote: > On Fri, 2005-06-10 at 02:43 +0700, DAN mackinlay wrote: > > > drupal's node moderation is a system created with slashdot in mind but > > is somewhat simpler and with less minute gradations of user privilege, > > and without automatic trusted user generation: > > http://drupal.org/node/304 > > http://drupal.org/node/11170 > > although there's probably a bloody module for that, too > > Combinations of modules like "Organic Groups" and "Node Moderator" you > may well get very close to what you're after there. yup, what i was detailing was precisely that combination. it certainly ain't the out-of-the-box version. the "automatic trusted user generation" i mentioned was a distiant memery of 'automember', http://cvs.drupal.org/viewcvs/drupal/contributions/modules/automember/README.txt?rev=1.3&view=markup which was last released for drupal 4.5.x at a glance the code doesn't look too hard to port. it may even work. ---dan From and at axxs.org Sat Jun 18 03:21:04 2005 From: and at axxs.org (and) Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2005 13:21:04 +1000 Subject: [Imc-melbourne-geeks] moving ahead Message-ID: <3fa8939de5a6c806045dd70845c10912@axxs.org> Hey, so unfortunately there we only 3 of us at the meeting so I basically took people through the functionality of drupal that i knew, so basically most of the admin section. To get a bit more of the conceptual development of the site happening might take a little longer but I think there is still lots that can be moved on with yeah like getting the photo/video/audio uploads working. I will get onto the wiki stuff today and tomorrow and try and sketch things out a bit better and at least identify the extra modules i am sure everyone else will want. Once we have these modules installed and basic functionality happening most everything else can be set up in the admin section yeah and then we need to get someone to tweak the css as we want it. So can we move along with getting basic functionality happening, i'll work on the wiki and try and get people together for a concept development session on a sat or sunday soon. Make sense? cheers. and. From dan.mackinlay at gmail.com Sun Jun 19 06:25:48 2005 From: dan.mackinlay at gmail.com (DAN mackinlay) Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2005 13:25:48 +0700 Subject: [Imc-melbourne-geeks] moving ahead In-Reply-To: <3fa8939de5a6c806045dd70845c10912@axxs.org> References: <3fa8939de5a6c806045dd70845c10912@axxs.org> Message-ID: Not that i got this email until after you guys in AEST-land have already met... but two things i want to chuck on the eventual roadmap map: 1) i like the india IMC classifies articles into 'related articles', not sut topics. So i clicked on one nepali martial law site and got all the nepali martial laws available at one click. this is cool. serial.module sounds like it might do it... or not. maybe with some hacking 2) verification. one day. in the eventual future, i would like it if there were some software mechanism that trusted users who were involved in an event could add their opinins of an article about it some how. some kind of communal fact checking... that would go some way to addressing the perceived lack of trustworthiness of IMCs. right now i guess that's still down to an editorial collective humm. ---dan() On 6/18/05, and wrote: > Hey, > so unfortunately there we only 3 of us at the meeting so I basically > took people through the functionality of drupal that i knew, so > basically most of the admin section. To get a bit more of the > conceptual development of the site happening might take a little longer > but I think there is still lots that can be moved on with yeah like > getting the photo/video/audio uploads working. I will get onto the wiki > stuff today and tomorrow and try and sketch things out a bit better and > at least identify the extra modules i am sure everyone else will want. > Once we have these modules installed and basic functionality happening > most everything else can be set up in the admin section yeah and then > we need to get someone to tweak the css as we want it. > So can we move along with getting basic functionality happening, i'll > work on the wiki and try and get people together for a concept > development session on a sat or sunday soon. > Make sense? > cheers. > and. > > _______________________________________________ > Imc-melbourne-geeks mailing list > Imc-melbourne-geeks at lists.cat.org.au > http://lists.cat.org.au/cgi-bin/m/listinfo/imc-melbourne-geeks > From changeling_au_2004 at yahoo.com.au Sun Jun 19 15:33:06 2005 From: changeling_au_2004 at yahoo.com.au (Nigel W) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 01:33:06 +1000 (EST) Subject: [Imc-melbourne-geeks] moving ahead In-Reply-To: <3fa8939de5a6c806045dd70845c10912@axxs.org> Message-ID: <20050619153306.70635.qmail@web51804.mail.yahoo.com> Yes, we need to meet properly to discuss the new site in detail. I'm not available on the first Sunday of the month, as that is when the monthly No Tolls protest car rallies are on. All the best, Nigel and wrote: Hey, so unfortunately there we only 3 of us at the meeting so I basically took people through the functionality of drupal that i knew, so basically most of the admin section. To get a bit more of the conceptual development of the site happening might take a little longer but I think there is still lots that can be moved on with yeah like getting the photo/video/audio uploads working. I will get onto the wiki stuff today and tomorrow and try and sketch things out a bit better and at least identify the extra modules i am sure everyone else will want. Once we have these modules installed and basic functionality happening most everything else can be set up in the admin section yeah and then we need to get someone to tweak the css as we want it. So can we move along with getting basic functionality happening, i'll work on the wiki and try and get people together for a concept development session on a sat or sunday soon. Make sense? cheers. and. _______________________________________________ Imc-melbourne-geeks mailing list Imc-melbourne-geeks at lists.cat.org.au http://lists.cat.org.au/cgi-bin/m/listinfo/imc-melbourne-geeks Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.indymedia.org.au/pipermail/imc-melbourne-geeks/attachments/20050620/fd36c6ed/attachment.htm From pmargin at optusnet.com.au Mon Jun 20 08:40:53 2005 From: pmargin at optusnet.com.au (pmargin at optusnet.com.au) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 18:40:53 +1000 Subject: [Imc-melbourne-geeks] moving ahead In-Reply-To: <20050619153306.70635.qmail@web51804.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20050619153306.70635.qmail@web51804.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3f01a03b61cf33572d615f9beda1d320@optusnet.com.au> um, when are the meetings? I wasn't aware of the one that and mentioned ... Steve On 20 Jun 2005, at 1:33 AM, Nigel W wrote: > Yes, we need to meet properly to discuss the new site in detail. I'm > not available on the first Sunday of the month, as that is when the > monthly No Tolls protest car rallies are on. > ? > ?????????????????????????????????? All the best, > ??????????????????????????????????????????????? Nigel From and at axxs.org Mon Jun 20 14:00:51 2005 From: and at axxs.org (and) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 00:00:51 +1000 Subject: [Imc-melbourne-geeks] moving ahead In-Reply-To: <3f01a03b61cf33572d615f9beda1d320@optusnet.com.au> References: <20050619153306.70635.qmail@web51804.mail.yahoo.com> <3f01a03b61cf33572d615f9beda1d320@optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: <3a7bcd2003f58eafb2ab8088ee95dbb4@axxs.org> ah oops, not everyone on this list is on the work list where meeting got mentioned. sorry steve. it gets confusing. want me to put you on? The next meeting is thursday week june 30th, 6.30 pm, glitch bar 318 st georges rd. regards. and. On 20/06/2005, at 6:40 PM, pmargin at optusnet.com.au wrote: > um, when are the meetings? > > I wasn't aware of the one that and mentioned ... > > Steve > > On 20 Jun 2005, at 1:33 AM, Nigel W wrote: > >> Yes, we need to meet properly to discuss the new site in detail. I'm >> not available on the first Sunday of the month, as that is when the >> monthly No Tolls protest car rallies are on. >> ? >> ?????????????????????????????????? All the best, >> ??????????????????????????????????????????????? Nigel > > _______________________________________________ > Imc-melbourne-geeks mailing list > Imc-melbourne-geeks at lists.cat.org.au > http://lists.cat.org.au/cgi-bin/m/listinfo/imc-melbourne-geeks > From pmargin at optusnet.com.au Tue Jun 21 11:09:29 2005 From: pmargin at optusnet.com.au (pmargin at optusnet.com.au) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 21:09:29 +1000 Subject: [Imc-melbourne-geeks] moving ahead In-Reply-To: <3a7bcd2003f58eafb2ab8088ee95dbb4@axxs.org> References: <20050619153306.70635.qmail@web51804.mail.yahoo.com> <3f01a03b61cf33572d615f9beda1d320@optusnet.com.au> <3a7bcd2003f58eafb2ab8088ee95dbb4@axxs.org> Message-ID: yes, put me on the other list, and - can't make Thursdays at that time, but maybe other times that pop up ... Steve