From zeroworkethic at riseup.net Sat Mar 3 05:30:12 2007 From: zeroworkethic at riseup.net (rory) Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2007 16:30:12 +1100 Subject: [Imc-melbourne-eds] Proposed: Rushing to Climate Disaster In-Reply-To: <807467.81043.qm@web56607.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <807467.81043.qm@web56607.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <45E907E4.9040707@riseup.net> wow, this is absolute garbage. nigel, just so you know, when you say this stuff you sound like an insane crackpot. honestly there are plenty of sites where this kind of rant might be appreciated, but i don't think the indy eds e-list is one of them. rory Nigel W wrote: > > While I'm not going to object to this feature, we really need to push > the envelope on issues surrounding climate change. > "Zero Emissions must be the Target to Avoid Climate Catastrophe" > I have a real problem with this mantra. > While climate change is obviously a reality, has anyone noticed that the > "problem" is framed only in terms surrounding Human activity and the > "solutions" are framed in terms of restricting Human freedom? - with > maybe a bit of talk about solar panels and windmills being thrown in for > good measure. > Notice that the destruction of the World's forests (IE: the World's > "lungs") has slipped off the radar? > Those who propagandise about "zero emissions" typically will not discuss > any of the following: > 1) The enormous amount of greenhouse gasses produced by nature. In China > alone, more coal is burned annually in underground coal fires than is > exported. Many of these underground coal fires (there's one in NSW > incidentally) are estimated to have been burning for hundreds - and in > some cases, thousands - of years. Kinda puts Human industrial emissions > into context. > 2) Reports in various scientific publications about the increase in > Solar activity. > 3) Publically admitted weather manipulation technologies such as the > Giga-watt ionospheric heating HAARP antenna array in Alaska (owned by > Arco) and its sister project, EISCAT. Both of these projects have direct > links with Cold Spring Harbour labs - home of the Human Genome project, > and the historic headquarters of the American Eugenics Society. > 4) The notion that oil and coal are "fossil fuels" doesn't stand up to > scrutiny. > 5) Nor will they generally discuss the Club of Rome - the organisation > set up by eugenically motivated elites in 1968 which got the > psuedo-environmental movement up and running and whos memes have been > replicated by an endless string of "Non-government Organisations" (Why > *do* they call them that?!) > It was the Club of Rome which - through the use of fraudulent "science" > - encouraged China to adopt the one child program which has been a > disaster, based on *assertions* that the World is overpopulated. > > Talk of zero emissions can *sound* radical, particularly since all those > nasty capitalist oil companies are complaining about it. However, who > set up the Club of Rome? Such creatures as members of the Rockefeller > dynasty, members of the British Royal family and the head of Fiat among > others. The Rockefeller dynasty covers Exxon, Mobil, Chevron, bits of > Shell among others. The Windsor dynasty (British Royals) covers BP, > bits of Shell and....Arco - owner of the HAARP antenna array! Quite an > incestuous bunch, aren't they? > > Considering that the "War on drugs" is being waged by the world's > biggest drug dealers, the "War on crime" by the world's greatest > criminals, and the "War on terror" by the world's greatest terrorists, > we really shouldn't be surprised that the "War on environmental > destruction" is being waged by the world's greatest environmental > destroyers! > > To summarise - and this brief email doesn't do this vast topic justice - > whole chunks of the environmental movement are passively regurgitating > themes which serve numerous agendas of those who are destroying the > environment. The dynasties which dominate the polluting industries (oil, > auto, etc.) also dominated the eugenics movement in the early 20th > century and continue to do so (eugenics was given a bad name by the > Nazis, so its advocates rarely use that term these days), also fund the > *psuedo*-environmental movement. > Why would they do this? So they can manipulate all the sides of a > Hegelian dialectic (Thesis+antithesis=synthesis). If one can dominate > the thesis (ie: Cars are great! Let's burn lots of oil! Pollution is > cool! Let's do whatever we want) and the antithesis (ie: There's too > many emissions! Let's interfere with (certain) people's lives to stop > them. There's too many people! We need to control them.), then it's a > doddle to synthesise whatever one wishes - in this case, Global > dictatorship among other nasty things. > > By all means advocate zero emissions (it certainly doesn't *hurt* to > work towards such a goal), but unless we start looking at a bigger > picture regarding climate change and looking at real solutions then not > only are we kidding ourselves, we are serving a set of extremely nasty > agendas. > > All the best, > Nigel > > ps: If anyone requires clarification, further info, etc. just ask. > > > */takver /* wrote: > > This was the second part of the climate change story :) > Zero Emissions must be the Target to Avoid Climate Catastrophe > > Comments? > Preview here: > http://melbourne.indymedia.org/?preview=13 > > Takver > > Rushing to Climate Disaster > > Last month was the > href="http://melbourne.indymedia.org/news/2007/02/139591.php">World's > Hottest January Ever Recorded and > href="http://melbourne.indymedia.org/news/2007/02/139591_comment.php#141235">2006 > was the fifth hottest year on record, with > href="http://melbourne.indymedia.org/news/2007/01/138239.php">ice cream > imported from half a world away while Glaciers and > href="http://melbourne.indymedia.org/news/2007/02/139844.php">ice sheets > melt. In Queensland the Land and Resources Tribunal has found that > > href="http://melbourne.indymedia.org/news/2007/02/139844_comment.php#140098">Fossil > fuels are not linked to global warming in a judgement on a new coal > mine developed by Xstrata. The Tribunal was also sceptical of the > href="http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/independent_reviews/stern_review_economics_climate_change/sternreview_index.cfm">Stern > Review and the latest report from > href="http://www.ipcc.ch/">Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change > according to an > href="http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/content/2007/s1849776.htm">ABC > report. > > The petro-chemical, automobile and mining industries have been at the > heart of undermining scientific research and information on climate > change with > href="http://melbourne.indymedia.org/news/2007/02/138578.php">Scientists > offered cash to dispute climate study and a heavily subsidised > href="http://melbourne.indymedia.org/news/2007/02/138453.php">Disinformation > Campaign > > > href="http://melbourne.indymedia.org/news/2007/02/139875.php">Challenges > for universities to go Research Zero | > href="http://www.rainforestinfo.org.au/climate/">Rainforest Information > Centre on Climate Change > > > Beyond Zero Emissions | > Avoiding Catastrophe | > Climate IMC > > > There is actually material for 3 features in this one, but we haven't > > been keeping up with producing features so thinfo is all rolled into > > one. If more ppl were moderating the wire re Mick and spam, i could > > probably concentrate on ftrs more. Comments? > > -- > > in solidarity > > Takver > > > > Image: http://melbourne.indymedia.org/images/200702EmissionsGap.jpg > > Zero Emissions must be the Target to Avoid Climate Catastrophe > > > > "We must go to zero emissions and start removing existing atmospheric > > carbon straight away if we are to avoid dangerous run-away climate > > change," > > href="http://melbourne.indymedia.org/news/2007/02/139873.php">said > > Philip Sutton, Director of Green Innovations, to a large audience at > > Federation Square at the > > href="http://www.slf.org.au/festival/">Sustainable Living Festival. > > This follows packed crowds at > > href="http://melbourne.indymedia.org/news/2007/02/139007.php > ">Richmond > > Town Hall and in Ballarat recently to hear John Seed from the > > Rainforest Information Centre speaking on Climate Change. > > > > > Recent studies and reports indicate that > > > href="http://melbourne.indymedia.org/news/2007/02/139334.php">Catastrophic > > Climate Change may be Inevitible unless Drastic Steps are Taken. > > Some experts are warning the IPCC Report > > > href="http://melbourne.indymedia.org/news/2007/02/140089.php">under-estimates > > Global Warming, with > > > href="http://melbourne.indymedia.org/news/2007/02/139844.php">increased > > melt from the Greenland and West Antarctic ice sheets, precipitating > > an > > > href="http://melbourne.indymedia.org/news/2007/02/138576.php">accelerating > > rise in sea levels resulting in a > > href="http://melbourne.indymedia.org/news/2007/02/138660.php">12 > metre > > rise or more. > > > > > The petro-chemical industry has been at the heart of undermining > > scientific research and information on climate change with > > > href="http://melbourne.indymedia.org/news/2007/02/138578.php">Scientists > > offered cash to dispute climate study and a heavily subsidised > > > href="http://melbourne.indymedia.org/news/2007/02/138453.php">Disinformation > > Campaign > > > > > *Rushing to Disaster* > > > But don't sit back, last month was the > > href="http://melbourne.indymedia.org/news/2007/02/139591.php">World's > > Hottest January Ever Recorded with > > href="http://melbourne.indymedia.org/news/2007/01/138239.php">ice > cream > > imported from half a world away while Glaciers and ice sheets melt. > > In Queensland the Land and Resources Tribunal has found that > > > href="http://melbourne.indymedia.org/news/2007/02/139844_comment.php#140098">Fossil > > fuels are not linked to global warming in a judgement on a new coal > > mine developed by Xstrata. The Tribunal was also sceptical of the > > > href="http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/independent_reviews/stern_review_economics_climate_change/sternreview_index.cfm">Stern > > Review and the latest report from > > href="http://www.ipcc.ch/">Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change > > according to an > > href="http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/content/2007/s1849776.htm">ABC > > report. > > > > > > > > href="http://melbourne.indymedia.org/news/2007/02/139875.php">Challenges > > for universities to go Research Zero > > Beyond Zero Emissions | > > Avoiding Catastrophe | > > Climate IMC > > _______________________________________________ > > Imc-melbourne-eds mailing list > > Imc-melbourne-eds at indymedia.org.au > > http://lists.indymedia.org.au/mailman/listinfo/imc-melbourne-eds > > > > > > -- > in solidarity > Takver > > _______________________________________________ > Imc-melbourne-eds mailing list > Imc-melbourne-eds at indymedia.org.au > http://lists.indymedia.org.au/mailman/listinfo/imc-melbourne-eds > > > Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Imc-melbourne-eds mailing list > Imc-melbourne-eds at indymedia.org.au > http://lists.indymedia.org.au/mailman/listinfo/imc-melbourne-eds From changeling_au_2004 at yahoo.com.au Sat Mar 3 08:25:09 2007 From: changeling_au_2004 at yahoo.com.au (Nigel W) Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2007 19:25:09 +1100 (EST) Subject: [Imc-melbourne-eds] Proposed: Rushing to Climate Disaster In-Reply-To: <45E907E4.9040707@riseup.net> Message-ID: <409751.39765.qm@web56608.mail.re3.yahoo.com> I'm curious as to why this feature has not yet been published - no one's objected to it. Rory. While I respect the fact that few people (though the number is growing) are aware of - or even interested in - the kind of research that I do, your dismissal of it is frankly pathetic. How and why is it "absolute garbage"? What is "this stuff"? In what way and by whos standards does it make me "sound like an insane crackpot"? I'm aware that it imparts a lot of information in a short hit and is rather generalised - that is, it's something of a rant. If I did as Lachlan suggested and wrote it as an article I would have taken far more time to provide sources, provide a more detailed hypothesis, etc. I wrote it quickly before going to work. Furthermore, the specific issue of the infiltration and utilisation of the environmental movement by eugenicists and others is only a marginal interest of mine - I'm content to largely leave it to others - so I didn't have a compendium of links on the topics I raised at the ready. There's no point in my trying to clarify it further unless you explain what caused you to be so offended by it. Kindly do so. I think the Eds list is an appropriate place to have discussions on the topics we have features on. If you disagree then suggest a more appropriate list - currently, I can't think of one. Nigel rory wrote: wow, this is absolute garbage. nigel, just so you know, when you say this stuff you sound like an insane crackpot. honestly there are plenty of sites where this kind of rant might be appreciated, but i don't think the indy eds e-list is one of them. rory Nigel W wrote: > > While I'm not going to object to this feature, we really need to push > the envelope on issues surrounding climate change. > "Zero Emissions must be the Target to Avoid Climate Catastrophe" > I have a real problem with this mantra. > While climate change is obviously a reality, has anyone noticed that the > "problem" is framed only in terms surrounding Human activity and the > "solutions" are framed in terms of restricting Human freedom? - with > maybe a bit of talk about solar panels and windmills being thrown in for > good measure. > Notice that the destruction of the World's forests (IE: the World's > "lungs") has slipped off the radar? > Those who propagandise about "zero emissions" typically will not discuss > any of the following: > 1) The enormous amount of greenhouse gasses produced by nature. In China > alone, more coal is burned annually in underground coal fires than is > exported. Many of these underground coal fires (there's one in NSW > incidentally) are estimated to have been burning for hundreds - and in > some cases, thousands - of years. Kinda puts Human industrial emissions > into context. > 2) Reports in various scientific publications about the increase in > Solar activity. > 3) Publically admitted weather manipulation technologies such as the > Giga-watt ionospheric heating HAARP antenna array in Alaska (owned by > Arco) and its sister project, EISCAT. Both of these projects have direct > links with Cold Spring Harbour labs - home of the Human Genome project, > and the historic headquarters of the American Eugenics Society. > 4) The notion that oil and coal are "fossil fuels" doesn't stand up to > scrutiny. > 5) Nor will they generally discuss the Club of Rome - the organisation > set up by eugenically motivated elites in 1968 which got the > psuedo-environmental movement up and running and whos memes have been > replicated by an endless string of "Non-government Organisations" (Why > *do* they call them that?!) > It was the Club of Rome which - through the use of fraudulent "science" > - encouraged China to adopt the one child program which has been a > disaster, based on *assertions* that the World is overpopulated. > > Talk of zero emissions can *sound* radical, particularly since all those > nasty capitalist oil companies are complaining about it. However, who > set up the Club of Rome? Such creatures as members of the Rockefeller > dynasty, members of the British Royal family and the head of Fiat among > others. The Rockefeller dynasty covers Exxon, Mobil, Chevron, bits of > Shell among others. The Windsor dynasty (British Royals) covers BP, > bits of Shell and....Arco - owner of the HAARP antenna array! Quite an > incestuous bunch, aren't they? > > Considering that the "War on drugs" is being waged by the world's > biggest drug dealers, the "War on crime" by the world's greatest > criminals, and the "War on terror" by the world's greatest terrorists, > we really shouldn't be surprised that the "War on environmental > destruction" is being waged by the world's greatest environmental > destroyers! > > To summarise - and this brief email doesn't do this vast topic justice - > whole chunks of the environmental movement are passively regurgitating > themes which serve numerous agendas of those who are destroying the > environment. The dynasties which dominate the polluting industries (oil, > auto, etc.) also dominated the eugenics movement in the early 20th > century and continue to do so (eugenics was given a bad name by the > Nazis, so its advocates rarely use that term these days), also fund the > *psuedo*-environmental movement. > Why would they do this? So they can manipulate all the sides of a > Hegelian dialectic (Thesis+antithesis=synthesis). If one can dominate > the thesis (ie: Cars are great! Let's burn lots of oil! Pollution is > cool! Let's do whatever we want) and the antithesis (ie: There's too > many emissions! Let's interfere with (certain) people's lives to stop > them. There's too many people! We need to control them.), then it's a > doddle to synthesise whatever one wishes - in this case, Global > dictatorship among other nasty things. > > By all means advocate zero emissions (it certainly doesn't *hurt* to > work towards such a goal), but unless we start looking at a bigger > picture regarding climate change and looking at real solutions then not > only are we kidding ourselves, we are serving a set of extremely nasty > agendas. > > All the best, > Nigel > > ps: If anyone requires clarification, further info, etc. just ask. > > > */takver /* wrote: > > This was the second part of the climate change story :) > Zero Emissions must be the Target to Avoid Climate Catastrophe > > Comments? > Preview here: > http://melbourne.indymedia.org/?preview=13 > > Takver > > Rushing to Climate Disaster > > Last month was the > href="http://melbourne.indymedia.org/news/2007/02/139591.php">World's > Hottest January Ever Recorded and > href="http://melbourne.indymedia.org/news/2007/02/139591_comment.php#141235">2006 > was the fifth hottest year on record, with > href="http://melbourne.indymedia.org/news/2007/01/138239.php">ice cream > imported from half a world away while Glaciers and > href="http://melbourne.indymedia.org/news/2007/02/139844.php">ice sheets > melt. In Queensland the Land and Resources Tribunal has found that > > href="http://melbourne.indymedia.org/news/2007/02/139844_comment.php#140098">Fossil > fuels are not linked to global warming in a judgement on a new coal > mine developed by Xstrata. The Tribunal was also sceptical of the > href="http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/independent_reviews/stern_review_economics_climate_change/sternreview_index.cfm">Stern > Review and the latest report from > href="http://www.ipcc.ch/">Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change > according to an > href="http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/content/2007/s1849776.htm">ABC > report. > > The petro-chemical, automobile and mining industries have been at the > heart of undermining scientific research and information on climate > change with > href="http://melbourne.indymedia.org/news/2007/02/138578.php">Scientists > offered cash to dispute climate study and a heavily subsidised > href="http://melbourne.indymedia.org/news/2007/02/138453.php">Disinformation > Campaign > > > href="http://melbourne.indymedia.org/news/2007/02/139875.php">Challenges > for universities to go Research Zero | > href="http://www.rainforestinfo.org.au/climate/">Rainforest Information > Centre on Climate Change > > > Beyond Zero Emissions | > Avoiding Catastrophe | > Climate IMC > > > There is actually material for 3 features in this one, but we haven't > > been keeping up with producing features so thinfo is all rolled into > > one. If more ppl were moderating the wire re Mick and spam, i could > > probably concentrate on ftrs more. Comments? > > -- > > in solidarity > > Takver > > > > Image: http://melbourne.indymedia.org/images/200702EmissionsGap.jpg > > Zero Emissions must be the Target to Avoid Climate Catastrophe > > > > "We must go to zero emissions and start removing existing atmospheric > > carbon straight away if we are to avoid dangerous run-away climate > > change," > > href="http://melbourne.indymedia.org/news/2007/02/139873.php">said > > Philip Sutton, Director of Green Innovations, to a large audience at > > Federation Square at the > > href="http://www.slf.org.au/festival/">Sustainable Living Festival. > > This follows packed crowds at > > href="http://melbourne.indymedia.org/news/2007/02/139007.php > ">Richmond > > Town Hall and in Ballarat recently to hear John Seed from the > > Rainforest Information Centre speaking on Climate Change. > > > > > Recent studies and reports indicate that > > > href="http://melbourne.indymedia.org/news/2007/02/139334.php">Catastrophic > > Climate Change may be Inevitible unless Drastic Steps are Taken. > > Some experts are warning the IPCC Report > > > href="http://melbourne.indymedia.org/news/2007/02/140089.php">under-estimates > > Global Warming, with > > > href="http://melbourne.indymedia.org/news/2007/02/139844.php">increased > > melt from the Greenland and West Antarctic ice sheets, precipitating > > an > > > href="http://melbourne.indymedia.org/news/2007/02/138576.php">accelerating > > rise in sea levels resulting in a > > href="http://melbourne.indymedia.org/news/2007/02/138660.php">12 > metre > > rise or more. > > > > > The petro-chemical industry has been at the heart of undermining > > scientific research and information on climate change with > > > href="http://melbourne.indymedia.org/news/2007/02/138578.php">Scientists > > offered cash to dispute climate study and a heavily subsidised > > > href="http://melbourne.indymedia.org/news/2007/02/138453.php">Disinformation > > Campaign > > > > > *Rushing to Disaster* > > > But don't sit back, last month was the > > href="http://melbourne.indymedia.org/news/2007/02/139591.php">World's > > Hottest January Ever Recorded with > > href="http://melbourne.indymedia.org/news/2007/01/138239.php">ice > cream > > imported from half a world away while Glaciers and ice sheets melt. > > In Queensland the Land and Resources Tribunal has found that > > > href="http://melbourne.indymedia.org/news/2007/02/139844_comment.php#140098">Fossil > > fuels are not linked to global warming in a judgement on a new coal > > mine developed by Xstrata. The Tribunal was also sceptical of the > > > href="http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/independent_reviews/stern_review_economics_climate_change/sternreview_index.cfm">Stern > > Review and the latest report from > > href="http://www.ipcc.ch/">Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change > > according to an > > href="http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/content/2007/s1849776.htm">ABC > > report. > > > > > > > > href="http://melbourne.indymedia.org/news/2007/02/139875.php">Challenges > > for universities to go Research Zero > > Beyond Zero Emissions | > > Avoiding Catastrophe | > > Climate IMC > > _______________________________________________ > > Imc-melbourne-eds mailing list > > Imc-melbourne-eds at indymedia.org.au > > http://lists.indymedia.org.au/mailman/listinfo/imc-melbourne-eds > > > > > > -- > in solidarity > Takver > > _______________________________________________ > Imc-melbourne-eds mailing list > Imc-melbourne-eds at indymedia.org.au > http://lists.indymedia.org.au/mailman/listinfo/imc-melbourne-eds > > > Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Imc-melbourne-eds mailing list > Imc-melbourne-eds at indymedia.org.au > http://lists.indymedia.org.au/mailman/listinfo/imc-melbourne-eds _______________________________________________ Imc-melbourne-eds mailing list Imc-melbourne-eds at indymedia.org.au http://lists.indymedia.org.au/mailman/listinfo/imc-melbourne-eds Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.indymedia.org.au/pipermail/imc-melbourne-eds/attachments/20070303/ad35fc68/attachment.htm From tirin at takver.com Sat Mar 3 14:33:41 2007 From: tirin at takver.com (takver) Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2007 08:33:41 -0600 Subject: [Imc-melbourne-eds] Proposed: Rushing to Climate Disaster Message-ID: <200703031433.l23EXf7W011966@apollo.linuxengine.net> Posted. Reason it took a while - I was having a two day break concentratng on other life activities - all offline. :) Nigel, I must say I was surprised by your rant. While I would not agree with most of it, I would not discount all of it as absolute garbage either. > While climate change is obviously a reality, has anyone noticed that the "problem" is framed only in terms surrounding Human activity and the "solutions" are framed in terms of restricting Human freedom? - with maybe a bit of talk about solar panels and windmills being thrown in for good measure. Notice that the destruction of the World's forests (IE: the World's "lungs") has slipped off the radar? It is framed in terms of human activity because from a conservative scientific consensus, human produced greenhouse emissions is "unequivically" changing the climate. It would be a problem even if deforrestation was stopped tomorrow and reforrestration programs were instituted. The problem is the increasing greenhouse emissions caused by human activity, which then causes positive and negative feedback loops (but primarily positive). > 1) The enormous amount of greenhouse gasses produced by nature. As far as I have read, this is taken account of. Human induced greenhouse emissions have steadily risen, and has started feedback loops such as increasing release of methane from defrosting permafrost. > 2) Reports in various scientific publications about the increase in Solar activity. I have read reports about solar activity cycles and its contribution and the liklihood we might be entering a period of reduced solar activity, which may provide perhaps 15 years period reduction in the portion of emissions contributed by solar activity. The danger is complacency, as emissions will increase again and will add a multiplier effect if human emissions are not reduced during this period of reduced solar activity. > 3) Publically admitted weather manipulation technologies such as the Giga-watt ionospheric heating HAARP antenna array in Alaska (owned by Arco) and its sister project, EISCAT. Both of these projects have direct links with Cold Spring Harbour labs - home of the Human Genome project, and the historic headquarters of the American Eugenics Society. First I have heard of these. On the scale of weather, the effect would be very localised and minor. The links to Cold Spring Harbour labs and the American Eugenics Society really need substantiation in refernces and citations. And you need to argue why. Whats the agenda. Otherwise its just conspiracy theory allowing people to dismiss the information as crackpot. > 4) The notion that oil and coal are "fossil fuels" doesn't stand up to scrutiny. Sorry, I'm missing something here. I did Geology 1 at Uni 30 years ago and I thought Oil and coal derive from fossilised vegetation requiring geological time and forces to naturally produce. Now, they can be made artificially, but only through extensive energy input (substantially more than the artificial fuels can provide). If this is not the case you have a lot of geologists to prove wrong (including a cousin of mine - a micro-paleontologist who worked many years in the oil industry in SE Asia) > 5) Nor will they generally discuss the Club of Rome - the organisation set up by eugenically motivated elites in 1968 which got the psuedo-environmental movement up and running and whos memes have been replicated by an endless string of "Non-government Organisations" (Why *do* they call them that?!) It was the Club of Rome which - through the use of fraudulent "science" - encouraged China to adopt the one child program which has been a disaster, based on *assertions* that the World is overpopulated. THe Environment movement was running before the Club of Rome, but their report did have an impact which stimulated increasing environmental activity. As I remember it, their report focussed on the Limits to Growth: increasing population and increasing exploitation of resources resulting in the degradation of the planetary environment. Warnings which appear to be coming more true on a daily basis with peak oil and climate change. Now fraudulent science is a very sweeping statement, as is your statement of China's one child program being a disaster. Personally, 6 and a half billion people I think is too many for the planetary environment, and I think the China population policy, while harsh in terms of individual liberties to reproduce children is socially responsible. Freedom is about balancing the rights of the individual with the rights of society, and sometimes it is hard to achieve the right balance and do this entirely voluntarily. I would rather humans manage our reproduction and population sanely, rather than to rely on wars, famines, diseases, and disasters for pop control. > unless we start looking at a bigger picture regarding climate change and looking at real solutions then not only are we kidding ourselves, we are serving a set of extremely nasty agendas. I agree with this statement, but it is so general, to be meaningless. Part of the problem is ever increasing population using finite resources; part is the economic system which feeds on consumption and economic growth. What are real solutions? Well, we could start transferring energy production from coal to renewables (Solar, wind, tidal, geothermal); boost public transport, cycling and walking as viable transport options while placing increasing hurdles for car use; make the road freight transport pay all infrastructure and social costs where it competes with either ship or rail freight; end land clearing and start massive reforrestration programs; encourage a mean reduction in population; reduce economic consumption; place a carbon tax on business emissions, end aircraft travel and encourage travel by rail and ship, and business meetings via the internet. Climate Change is no longer a scientific problem. It is a political problem of the failure of market capitalism. There will be hidden corporate agendas, and poltical agendas. Our job is to expose them where we can and elucidate the important issues. And we must do this while embracing grassroots democratic action and human rights. Not just our human rights, but also the rights of the Bangladeshi people or the Torres Straight Islanders not to be innundated by rising sea levels and to live a life in reasonable conditions of comfort and health. The rights of my descendants to experience the diversity of life on the planet that I have experienced. Sorry for the rant in reply. Much of my scientific news comes from scanning New Scientist every week. I have been involved with Friends of the Earth since their foundation in Australia in 1975. I have been raising "Limits to Growth" and sustainability issues since then, mostly in small ways and through my political activity. It has been like hitting my head against a brick wall most of the time, but with climate change at last the penny has dropped for many people. Takver > > I'm curious as to why this feature has not yet been published - no one's objected to it. > Rory. While I respect the fact that few people (though the number is growing) are aware of - or even interested in - the kind of research that I do, your dismissal of it is frankly pathetic. How and why is it "absolute garbage"? What is "this stuff"? In what way and by whos standards does it make me "sound like an insane crackpot"? > I'm aware that it imparts a lot of information in a short hit and is rather generalised - that is, it's something of a rant. If I did as Lachlan suggested and wrote it as an article I would have taken far more time to provide sources, provide a more detailed hypothesis, etc. > I wrote it quickly before going to work. Furthermore, the specific issue of the infiltration and utilisation of the environmental movement by eugenicists and others is only a marginal interest of mine - I'm content to largely leave it to others - so I didn't have a compendium of links on the topics I raised at the ready. > There's no point in my trying to clarify it further unless you explain what caused you to be so offended by it. Kindly do so. > > I think the Eds list is an appropriate place to have discussions on the topics we have features on. If you disagree then suggest a more appropriate list - currently, I can't think of one. > > Nigel > > rory wrote: wow, this is absolute garbage. > nigel, just so you know, when you say this stuff you sound like an > insane crackpot. honestly there are plenty of sites where this kind of > rant might be appreciated, but i don't think the indy eds e-list is one > of them. > > rory > > Nigel W wrote: > > > > While I'm not going to object to this feature, we really need to push > > the envelope on issues surrounding climate change. > > "Zero Emissions must be the Target to Avoid Climate Catastrophe" > > I have a real problem with this mantra. > > While climate change is obviously a reality, has anyone noticed that the > > "problem" is framed only in terms surrounding Human activity and the > > "solutions" are framed in terms of restricting Human freedom? - with > > maybe a bit of talk about solar panels and windmills being thrown in for > > good measure. > > Notice that the destruction of the World's forests (IE: the World's > > "lungs") has slipped off the radar? > > Those who propagandise about "zero emissions" typically will not discuss > > any of the following: > > 1) The enormous amount of greenhouse gasses produced by nature. In China > > alone, more coal is burned annually in underground coal fires than is > > exported. Many of these underground coal fires (there's one in NSW > > incidentally) are estimated to have been burning for hundreds - and in > > some cases, thousands - of years. Kinda puts Human industrial emissions > > into context. > > 2) Reports in various scientific publications about the increase in > > Solar activity. > > 3) Publically admitted weather manipulation technologies such as the > > Giga-watt ionospheric heating HAARP antenna array in Alaska (owned by > > Arco) and its sister project, EISCAT. Both of these projects have direct > > links with Cold Spring Harbour labs - home of the Human Genome project, > > and the historic headquarters of the American Eugenics Society. > > 4) The notion that oil and coal are "fossil fuels" doesn't stand up to > > scrutiny. > > 5) Nor will they generally discuss the Club of Rome - the organisation > > set up by eugenically motivated elites in 1968 which got the > > psuedo-environmental movement up and running and whos memes have been > > replicated by an endless string of "Non-government Organisations" (Why > > *do* they call them that?!) > > It was the Club of Rome which - through the use of fraudulent "science" > > - encouraged China to adopt the one child program which has been a > > disaster, based on *assertions* that the World is overpopulated. > > > > Talk of zero emissions can *sound* radical, particularly since all those > > nasty capitalist oil companies are complaining about it. However, who > > set up the Club of Rome? Such creatures as members of the Rockefeller > > dynasty, members of the British Royal family and the head of Fiat among > > others. The Rockefeller dynasty covers Exxon, Mobil, Chevron, bits of > > Shell among others. The Windsor dynasty (British Royals) covers BP, > > bits of Shell and....Arco - owner of the HAARP antenna array! Quite an > > incestuous bunch, aren't they? > > > > Considering that the "War on drugs" is being waged by the world's > > biggest drug dealers, the "War on crime" by the world's greatest > > criminals, and the "War on terror" by the world's greatest terrorists, > > we really shouldn't be surprised that the "War on environmental > > destruction" is being waged by the world's greatest environmental > > destroyers! > > > > To summarise - and this brief email doesn't do this vast topic justice - > > whole chunks of the environmental movement are passively regurgitating > > themes which serve numerous agendas of those who are destroying the > > environment. The dynasties which dominate the polluting industries (oil, > > auto, etc.) also dominated the eugenics movement in the early 20th > > century and continue to do so (eugenics was given a bad name by the > > Nazis, so its advocates rarely use that term these days), also fund the > > *psuedo*-environmental movement. > > Why would they do this? So they can manipulate all the sides of a > > Hegelian dialectic (Thesis+antithesis=synthesis). If one can dominate > > the thesis (ie: Cars are great! Let's burn lots of oil! Pollution is > > cool! Let's do whatever we want) and the antithesis (ie: There's too > > many emissions! Let's interfere with (certain) people's lives to stop > > them. There's too many people! We need to control them.), then it's a > > doddle to synthesise whatever one wishes - in this case, Global > > dictatorship among other nasty things. > > > > By all means advocate zero emissions (it certainly doesn't *hurt* to > > work towards such a goal), but unless we start looking at a bigger > > picture regarding climate change and looking at real solutions then not > > only are we kidding ourselves, we are serving a set of extremely nasty > > agendas. > > > > All the best, > > Nigel > > > > ps: If anyone requires clarification, further info, etc. just ask. > > > > > > */takver /* wrote: > > > > This was the second part of the climate change story :) > > Zero Emissions must be the Target to Avoid Climate Catastrophe > > > > Comments? > > Preview here: > > http://melbourne.indymedia.org/?preview=13 > > > > Takver > > > > Rushing to Climate Disaster > > > > Last month was the > > href="http://melbourne.indymedia.org/news/2007/02/139591.php">World's > > Hottest January Ever Recorded and > > href="http://melbourne.indymedia.org/news/2007/02/139591_comment.php#141235">2006 > > was the fifth hottest year on record, with > > href="http://melbourne.indymedia.org/news/2007/01/138239.php">ice cream > > imported from half a world away while Glaciers and > > href="http://melbourne.indymedia.org/news/2007/02/139844.php">ice sheets > > melt. In Queensland the Land and Resources Tribunal has found that > > > > href="http://melbourne.indymedia.org/news/2007/02/139844_comment.php#140098">Fossil > > fuels are not linked to global warming in a judgement on a new coal > > mine developed by Xstrata. The Tribunal was also sceptical of the > > href="http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/independent_reviews/stern_review_economics_climate_change/sternreview_index.cfm">Stern > > Review and the latest report from > > href="http://www.ipcc.ch/">Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change > > according to an > > href="http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/content/2007/s1849776.htm">ABC > > report. > > > > The petro-chemical, automobile and mining industries have been at the > > heart of undermining scientific research and information on climate > > change with > > href="http://melbourne.indymedia.org/news/2007/02/138578.php">Scientists > > offered cash to dispute climate study and a heavily subsidised > > href="http://melbourne.indymedia.org/news/2007/02/138453.php">Disinformation > > Campaign > > > > > > href="http://melbourne.indymedia.org/news/2007/02/139875.php">Challenges > > for universities to go Research Zero | > > href="http://www.rainforestinfo.org.au/climate/">Rainforest Information > > Centre on Climate Change > > > > > > Beyond Zero Emissions | > > Avoiding Catastrophe | > > Climate IMC > > > > > There is actually material for 3 features in this one, but we haven't > > > been keeping up with producing features so thinfo is all rolled into > > > one. If more ppl were moderating the wire re Mick and spam, i could > > > probably concentrate on ftrs more. Comments? > > > -- > > > in solidarity > > > Takver > > > > > > Image: http://melbourne.indymedia.org/images/200702EmissionsGap.jpg > > > Zero Emissions must be the Target to Avoid Climate Catastrophe > > > > > > "We must go to zero emissions and start removing existing atmospheric > > > carbon straight away if we are to avoid dangerous run-away climate > > > change," > > > href="http://melbourne.indymedia.org/news/2007/02/139873.php">said > > > Philip Sutton, Director of Green Innovations, to a large audience at > > > Federation Square at the > > > href="http://www.slf.org.au/festival/">Sustainable Living Festival. > > > This follows packed crowds at > > > href="http://melbourne.indymedia.org/news/2007/02/139007.php > > ">Richmond > > > Town Hall and in Ballarat recently to hear John Seed from the > > > Rainforest Information Centre speaking on Climate Change. > > > > > > > > Recent studies and reports indicate that > > > > > href="http://melbourne.indymedia.org/news/2007/02/139334.php">Catastrophic > > > Climate Change may be Inevitible unless Drastic Steps are Taken. > > > Some experts are warning the IPCC Report > > > > > href="http://melbourne.indymedia.org/news/2007/02/140089.php">under-estimates > > > Global Warming, with > > > > > href="http://melbourne.indymedia.org/news/2007/02/139844.php">increased > > > melt from the Greenland and West Antarctic ice sheets, precipitating > > > an > > > > > href="http://melbourne.indymedia.org/news/2007/02/138576.php">accelerating > > > rise in sea levels resulting in a > > > href="http://melbourne.indymedia.org/news/2007/02/138660.php">12 > > metre > > > rise or more. > > > > > > > > The petro-chemical industry has been at the heart of undermining > > > scientific research and information on climate change with > > > > > href="http://melbourne.indymedia.org/news/2007/02/138578.php">Scientists > > > offered cash to dispute climate study and a heavily subsidised > > > > > href="http://melbourne.indymedia.org/news/2007/02/138453.php">Disinformation > > > Campaign > > > > > > > > *Rushing to Disaster* > > > > > But don't sit back, last month was the > > > href="http://melbourne.indymedia.org/news/2007/02/139591.php">World's > > > Hottest January Ever Recorded with > > > href="http://melbourne.indymedia.org/news/2007/01/138239.php">ice > > cream > > > imported from half a world away while Glaciers and ice sheets melt. > > > In Queensland the Land and Resources Tribunal has found that > > > > > href="http://melbourne.indymedia.org/news/2007/02/139844_comment.php#140098">Fossil > > > fuels are not linked to global warming in a judgement on a new coal > > > mine developed by Xstrata. The Tribunal was also sceptical of the > > > > > href="http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/independent_reviews/stern_review_economics_climate_change/sternreview_index.cfm">Stern > > > Review and the latest report from > > > href="http://www.ipcc.ch/">Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change > > > according to an > > > href="http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/content/2007/s1849776.htm">ABC > > > report. > > > > > > > > > > > > > href="http://melbourne.indymedia.org/news/2007/02/139875.php">Challenges > > > for universities to go Research Zero > > > Beyond Zero Emissions | > > > Avoiding Catastrophe | > > > Climate IMC > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Imc-melbourne-eds mailing list > > > Imc-melbourne-eds at indymedia.org.au > > > http://lists.indymedia.org.au/mailman/listinfo/imc-melbourne-eds > > > > > > > > > > -- > > in solidarity > > Takver > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Imc-melbourne-eds mailing list > > Imc-melbourne-eds at indymedia.org.au > > http://lists.indymedia.org.au/mailman/listinfo/imc-melbourne-eds > > > > > > Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Imc-melbourne-eds mailing list > > Imc-melbourne-eds at indymedia.org.au > > http://lists.indymedia.org.au/mailman/listinfo/imc-melbourne-eds > _______________________________________________ > Imc-melbourne-eds mailing list > Imc-melbourne-eds at indymedia.org.au > http://lists.indymedia.org.au/mailman/listinfo/imc-melbourne-eds > > > Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com > -- in solidarity Takver From tirin at takver.com Sun Mar 4 13:19:39 2007 From: tirin at takver.com (takver) Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2007 07:19:39 -0600 Subject: [Imc-melbourne-eds] Proposed: Hicks Determined to Fight Charges Message-ID: <200703041319.l24DJdUg016505@apollo.linuxengine.net> comments? -- in solidarity Takver http://melbourne.indymedia.org/images/200703davidhicks.jpg Hicks Determined to Fight Charges David Hicks, "an Australian son abandoned by the nation and his government has decided to fight the fabricated charges brought against him by the criminal Bush regime." reports the Cleaves Editorial team. Hicks has rejected a plea bargain. Major Michael Mori has called for the Howard Government to challenge the charge of 'providing material support of terrorism'. "It's a made-up charge, it has a really impressive name, but it never existed in the law of war, in any of the US law of war manuals, or in any Australian law of war manual," he said.

On 26 February Lawyers for David Hicks fronted the Federal Court in the ongoing case against the Commonwealth for failing to protect an Australian citizen abroad. Justice Brian Tamblin reserved his decision citing the complexity of the case.

Friday vigils in Melbourne continue to garner support for David Hicks, with Tasneem Chopra of the Islamic Women's Welfare Council of Victoria speaking on March 2, Monash law lecturer Patrick Emerton speaking on February 24, Rod Quantock and a relative of one of the Barwon 13 on February 16, and Terry Hicks on February 2. The 2007 Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras in Sydney featured a 'Love Justice - Bring David Hicks Home' float.

Fair go for David | Bring David Hicks Home | Civil Rights Defence From tirin at takver.com Tue Mar 6 12:25:25 2007 From: tirin at takver.com (takver) Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2007 06:25:25 -0600 Subject: [Imc-melbourne-eds] Proposed: Payout to S11 Protestors a Rebuke to Police Violence Message-ID: <200703061225.l26CPP7m024875@apollo.linuxengine.net> comments? -- in solidarity Takver Payout to S11 Protestors a Rebuke to Police Violence Rather than face civil court proceeding the Bracks State Government has settled out of court with protestors injured by police violence during the S11 blockade of the World Economic Forum at Crown Casino in September 2000. Law Firm Slater and Gordon, acting for the claimants, will pocket nearly $600,000 in legal costs, with about $100,000 to be divided up between 42 people. "A settlement of this sort was always on the cards, and serves the interests of both parties... of lawyers" said one blogger who was at the blockade.

"I guess it is along way for Steve Bracks from offering the police who bashed us a day off with full pay and a Bar-B-Q! So a symbolic recognition, a small victory to go with all our glorious defeats." said Ciaron O'Reilly, one person who was attacked and injured by the police at the S11 blockade.

Ciaron O'Reilly on S11 | Dr Bernard Barrett's Report | Pt'chang Legal Observer Report (PDF) | Ombudsman's Report (PDF) Activist Rights From changeling_au_2004 at yahoo.com.au Tue Mar 6 12:58:05 2007 From: changeling_au_2004 at yahoo.com.au (Nigel W) Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2007 23:58:05 +1100 (EST) Subject: [Imc-melbourne-eds] Proposed: Payout to S11 Protestors a Rebuke to Police Violence In-Reply-To: <200703061225.l26CPP7m024875@apollo.linuxengine.net> Message-ID: <749194.33242.qm@web56607.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Just one thing - "it is along way for Steve Bracks" should probably be "...a long way..." Good to see @ndy (slackbastard) on the case - still as anarchic as he was back in high school! :) If this pathetic affair shows us anything, it is the value of people learning to perform their own legal defense rather than relying on parasitic "legal professionals". Nigel takver wrote: comments? -- in solidarity Takver Payout to S11 Protestors a Rebuke to Police Violence Rather than face civil court proceeding the Bracks State Government has settled out of court with protestors injured by police violence during the S11 blockade of the World Economic Forum at Crown Casino in September 2000. Law Firm Slater and Gordon, acting for the claimants, will pocket nearly $600,000 in legal costs, with about $100,000 to be divided up between 42 people. "A settlement of this sort was always on the cards, and serves the interests of both parties... of lawyers" said one href="http://slackbastard.anarchobase.com/?p=607">blogger who was at the blockade. "I guess it is along way for Steve Bracks from offering the police who bashed us a day off with full pay and a Bar-B-Q! So a symbolic recognition, a small victory to go with all our glorious defeats." said Ciaron O'Reilly, one person who was attacked and injured by the police at the S11 blockade. Ciaron O'Reilly on S11 | href="http://www.australianpolitics.com/pg/groups/barrett-s11-report-2000.shtml">Dr Bernard Barrett's Report | href="http://home.vicnet.net.au/~ptchang/downloads/s11_legal_observer_report.pdf">Pt'chang Legal Observer Report (PDF) | href="http://www.ombudsman.vic.gov.au/CA256F2D00228847/Lookup/WEFProtest/$file/Ombudsman_WEF_Protest_Report.pdf">Ombudsman's Report (PDF) Activist Rights _______________________________________________ Imc-melbourne-eds mailing list Imc-melbourne-eds at indymedia.org.au http://lists.indymedia.org.au/mailman/listinfo/imc-melbourne-eds Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.indymedia.org.au/pipermail/imc-melbourne-eds/attachments/20070306/a7ea9baf/attachment.htm From and at axxs.org Wed Mar 7 02:37:48 2007 From: and at axxs.org (and) Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 13:37:48 +1100 Subject: [Imc-melbourne-eds] Proposed: Payout to S11 Protestors a Rebuke to Police Violence In-Reply-To: <749194.33242.qm@web56607.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <749194.33242.qm@web56607.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <798279B3-B88E-48DD-8C0F-96ACE778B8E5@axxs.org> Talking to a lawyer friend on the weekend she told me one of the major reasons this is happening is that slater and gordon are about to start representing the police union as regards work choices and as such are no longer taking cases against the police. They had to close this case in order to start that work. She also said $600 000 of the $700 000 goes to legal bills which means the 50 or however many people were represented actually only get $2k, nothing really at all. I haven't heard that story written up anywhere but I think it's pretty significant and worth following up if anyone has the time, Cheers And. On 06/03/2007, at 11:58 PM, Nigel W wrote: > Just one thing - "it is along way for Steve Bracks" should probably > be "...a long way..." > Good to see @ndy (slackbastard) on the case - still as anarchic as > he was back in high school! :) > If this pathetic affair shows us anything, it is the value of > people learning to perform their own legal defense rather than > relying on parasitic "legal professionals". > > Nigel > > > takver wrote: > comments? > -- > in solidarity > Takver > > Payout to S11 Protestors a Rebuke to Police Violence > > > > Rather than face civil court proceeding the Bracks State Government > has > settled > out of court with protestors injured by police violence during the > S11 blockade of the World Economic Forum at Crown Casino in September > 2000. Law Firm Slater and Gordon, acting for the claimants, will > pocket > nearly $600,000 in legal costs, with about $100,000 to be divided up > between 42 people. "A settlement of this sort was always on the cards, > and serves the interests of both parties... of lawyers" said one > href="http://slackbastard.anarchobase.com/?p=607">blogger who was > at the > blockade. > > > > "I guess it is along way for Steve Bracks from offering the police who > bashed us a day off with full pay and a Bar-B-Q! So a symbolic > recognition, a small victory to go with all our glorious defeats." > said > Ciaron > O'Reilly, one person who was attacked and injured by the police at > the S11 blockade. > > > > Ciaron O'Reilly > on S11 | > > > href="http://www.australianpolitics.com/pg/groups/barrett-s11- > report-2000.shtml">Dr > Bernard Barrett's Report | > > > href="http://home.vicnet.net.au/~ptchang/downloads/ > s11_legal_observer_report.pdf">Pt'chang > Legal Observer Report (PDF) | > > > href="http://www.ombudsman.vic.gov.au/CA256F2D00228847/Lookup/ > WEFProtest/$file/Ombudsman_WEF_Protest_Report.pdf">Ombudsman's > Report (PDF) > > Activist Rights > > _______________________________________________ > Imc-melbourne-eds mailing list > Imc-melbourne-eds at indymedia.org.au > http://lists.indymedia.org.au/mailman/listinfo/imc-melbourne-eds > > Send instant messages to your online friends http:// > au.messenger.yahoo.com > > _______________________________________________ > Imc-melbourne-eds mailing list > Imc-melbourne-eds at indymedia.org.au > http://lists.indymedia.org.au/mailman/listinfo/imc-melbourne-eds -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.indymedia.org.au/pipermail/imc-melbourne-eds/attachments/20070307/fb70c0bc/attachment.htm From lachlan.simpson at wilderness.org.au Wed Mar 7 06:01:04 2007 From: lachlan.simpson at wilderness.org.au (Lachlan Musicman) Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 17:01:04 +1100 Subject: [Imc-melbourne-eds] Proposed: Payout to S11 Protestors a Rebuke to Police Violence In-Reply-To: <798279B3-B88E-48DD-8C0F-96ACE778B8E5@axxs.org> References: <749194.33242.qm@web56607.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <798279B3-B88E-48DD-8C0F-96ACE778B8E5@axxs.org> Message-ID: <24261cd0703062201u5046b3fesba33d333ff7e39a4@mail.gmail.com> Actually, the Herald Sun reported yesterday that Cieron would only get ~$2000 in a story with a photo of him next to a badly beaten copper. beaten to the punch again! (oh, the pain!) L. On 3/7/07, and wrote: > Talking to a lawyer friend on the weekend she told me one of the major > reasons this is happening is that slater and gordon are about to start > representing the police union as regards work choices and as such are no > longer taking cases against the police. They had to close this case in order > to start that work. She also said $600 000 of the $700 000 goes to legal > bills which means the 50 or however many people were represented actually > only get $2k, nothing really at all. I haven't heard that story written up > anywhere but I think it's pretty significant and worth following up if > anyone has the time, > > Cheers > And. > > > On 06/03/2007, at 11:58 PM, Nigel W wrote: > Just one thing - "it is along way for Steve Bracks" should probably be "...a > long way..." > Good to see @ndy (slackbastard) on the case - still as anarchic as he was > back in high school! :) > If this pathetic affair shows us anything, it is the value of people > learning to perform their own legal defense rather than relying on parasitic > "legal professionals". > > Nigel > > > takver wrote: > comments? > -- > in solidarity > Takver > > Payout to S11 Protestors a Rebuke to Police Violence > > > > Rather than face civil court proceeding the Bracks State Government has > settled > out of court with protestors injured by police violence during the > S11 blockade of the World Economic Forum at Crown Casino in September > 2000. Law Firm Slater and Gordon, acting for the claimants, will pocket > nearly $600,000 in legal costs, with about $100,000 to be divided up > between 42 people. "A settlement of this sort was always on the cards, > and serves the interests of both parties... of lawyers" said one > href="http://slackbastard.anarchobase.com/?p=607">blogger > who was at the > blockade. > > > > "I guess it is along way for Steve Bracks from offering the police who > bashed us a day off with full pay and a Bar-B-Q! So a symbolic > recognition, a small victory to go with all our glorious defeats." said > Ciaron > O'Reilly, one person who was attacked and injured by the police at > the S11 blockade. > > > > Ciaron O'Reilly > on S11 | > > > href="http://www.australianpolitics.com/pg/groups/barrett-s11-report-2000.shtml">Dr > Bernard Barrett's Report | > > > href="http://home.vicnet.net.au/~ptchang/downloads/s11_legal_observer_report.pdf">Pt'chang > Legal Observer Report (PDF) | > > > href="http://www.ombudsman.vic.gov.au/CA256F2D00228847/Lookup/WEFProtest/$file/Ombudsman_WEF_Protest_Report.pdf">Ombudsman's > Report (PDF) > > Activist Rights > > _______________________________________________ > Imc-melbourne-eds mailing list > Imc-melbourne-eds at indymedia.org.au > http://lists.indymedia.org.au/mailman/listinfo/imc-melbourne-eds > > > > Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > Imc-melbourne-eds mailing list > Imc-melbourne-eds at indymedia.org.au > http://lists.indymedia.org.au/mailman/listinfo/imc-melbourne-eds > > _______________________________________________ > Imc-melbourne-eds mailing list > Imc-melbourne-eds at indymedia.org.au > http://lists.indymedia.org.au/mailman/listinfo/imc-melbourne-eds > > -- READ CAREFULLY. By accepting this email you agree, on behalf of your employer, to release me from all obligations and waivers arising from any and all NON-NEGOTIATED agreements, licenses, terms-of-service, shrinkwrap, clickwrap, browsewrap, confidentiality, non-disclosure, non-compete and acceptable use policies ("BOGUS AGREEMENTS") that I have entered into with your employer, its partners, licensors, agents and assigns, in perpetuity, without prejudice to my ongoing rights and privileges. You further represent that you have the authority to release me from any BOGUS AGREEMENTS on behalf of your employer. http://www.ReasonableAgreement.org From tirin at takver.com Wed Mar 7 11:59:03 2007 From: tirin at takver.com (takver) Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 05:59:03 -0600 Subject: [Imc-melbourne-eds] Proposed: Antarctic Past haunts Climate Debate Message-ID: <200703071159.l27Bx3W5019619@apollo.linuxengine.net> This may still need some work...need to get to bed. Will take up tomorrow -- in solidarity Takver Antarctic Past haunts Climate Debate from the newswire
"Horrifying" new ice-core data reveals that around 5 million years ago there was massive melting of the Ross Ice Shelf, destabilizing the Earth's climate for the following 3.5 million years. Scientists from the Antarctic Geological Drill team are extremely alarmed at the scale of melting which occurred with an increase in average global temperature of only 2-3 degrees Celsius.

"The melting of the Ross Ice Shelf, currently the size of France, would literally leave just a 'Ross Bay' as it did 5 million years ago. Not only would the melted ice cause sea levels to rise, it would force land-based ice to shift, breaking up dramatically and cause the break down of the oceans' global conveyor belt thermohaline circulation system." said Matthew Wright, Beyond Zero Emissions campaigner. [Full Story]

In related news, NASA authority on climate Change, Jim Hansen, has said "...all old-technology coal-fired power plants eventually must be bulldozed". Victorian Premier, Steve Bracks, can't see the solution through all the pollution, while Federal Labor Party leader, Kevin Rudd is also espousing costly clean coal technologies, largely at the expense of renewables. In contrast, New Zealand is likely to be the first carbon neutral country.

Beyond Zero Emissions From changeling_au_2004 at yahoo.com.au Fri Mar 9 16:24:10 2007 From: changeling_au_2004 at yahoo.com.au (Nigel W) Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2007 03:24:10 +1100 (EST) Subject: [Imc-melbourne-eds] Proposed: Antarctic Past haunts Climate Debate In-Reply-To: <200703071159.l27Bx3W5019619@apollo.linuxengine.net> Message-ID: <976371.77603.qm@web56609.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi Takver, check this out - Partial extract: " Twenty years ago, climate research became politicised in favour of one particular hypothesis, which redefined the subject as the study of the effect of greenhouse gases. As a result, the rebellious spirits essential for innovative and trustworthy science are greeted with impediments to their research careers. And while the media usually find mavericks at least entertaining, in this case they often imagine that anyone who doubts the hypothesis of man-made global warming must be in the pay of the oil companies. As a result, some key discoveries in climate research go almost unreported." Do please read the entire article. I think you may find it interesting. George Orwell said, "In a time of Universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." I think the most radical thing the environmental movement can do is to DEMAND (ie: not beg) that something akin to a grassroots Truth Commission be set up to examine this and numerous other issues, and present findings in a way which is legible to the layperson. While that's happening, there's no reason not to further utilise clean energy technologies, decent public transport, toxic waste destruction technologies etc. etc. And hemp! Everyone seems to have forgotten how staggeringly useful hemp is...... All the best, Nigel ps: Some delays in replying to your previous email - some prat on Wikipedia is trying to get references to removed. I've joined the battle to reverse the decision. My first taste of Wikipedia politricks! Now it's my turn to go to bed..... :) takver wrote: This may still need some work...need to get to bed. Will take up tomorrow -- in solidarity Takver Antarctic Past haunts Climate Debate from the newswire "Horrifying" new ice-core data reveals that around 5 million years ago there was massive melting of the Ross Ice Shelf, destabilizing the Earth's climate for the following 3.5 million years. Scientists from the Antarctic Geological Drill team are extremely alarmed at the scale of melting which occurred with an increase in average global temperature of only 2-3 degrees Celsius. "The melting of the Ross Ice Shelf, currently the size of France, would literally leave just a 'Ross Bay' as it did 5 million years ago. Not only would the melted ice cause sea levels to rise, it would force land-based ice to shift, breaking up dramatically and cause the break down of the oceans' global conveyor belt thermohaline circulation system." said Matthew Wright, Beyond Zero Emissions campaigner. [ href="http://melbourne.indymedia.org/news/2007/03/141759.php">Full Story] In related news, NASA authority on climate Change, Jim Hansen, has said "...all old-technology coal-fired power plants eventually must be bulldozed". Victorian Premier, Steve Bracks, href="http://melbourne.indymedia.org/news/2007/02/141167.php">can't see the solution through all the pollution, while Federal Labor Party leader, href="http://melbourne.indymedia.org/news/2007/02/141063.php">Kevin Rudd is also espousing costly clean coal technologies, largely at the expense of renewables. In contrast, New Zealand is likely to be the first carbon neutral country. Beyond Zero Emissions _______________________________________________ Imc-melbourne-eds mailing list Imc-melbourne-eds at indymedia.org.au http://lists.indymedia.org.au/mailman/listinfo/imc-melbourne-eds Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.indymedia.org.au/pipermail/imc-melbourne-eds/attachments/20070310/de464363/attachment.htm From lachlan.simpson at wilderness.org.au Sat Mar 10 08:00:08 2007 From: lachlan.simpson at wilderness.org.au (Lachlan Musicman) Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2007 19:00:08 +1100 Subject: [Imc-melbourne-eds] no side listing? Message-ID: <24261cd0703100000pda19b92yf5ae1b5734133d41@mail.gmail.com> Hola, the newswire of melb indy has disappeared? Also, unfortunately, due to unforseen University commitments, I'm going to have to withdraw from my involvement with the radio show, which I regret, but I don't make the uni timetable. Should be able to come back on board after June/July. cheers L. -- READ CAREFULLY. By accepting this email you agree, on behalf of your employer, to release me from all obligations and waivers arising from any and all NON-NEGOTIATED agreements, licenses, terms-of-service, shrinkwrap, clickwrap, browsewrap, confidentiality, non-disclosure, non-compete and acceptable use policies ("BOGUS AGREEMENTS") that I have entered into with your employer, its partners, licensors, agents and assigns, in perpetuity, without prejudice to my ongoing rights and privileges. You further represent that you have the authority to release me from any BOGUS AGREEMENTS on behalf of your employer. http://www.ReasonableAgreement.org From changeling_au_2004 at yahoo.com.au Sat Mar 10 15:39:17 2007 From: changeling_au_2004 at yahoo.com.au (Nigel W) Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 02:39:17 +1100 (EST) Subject: [Imc-melbourne-eds] Re: [imc-melbourne-work] no side listing? In-Reply-To: <24261cd0703100000pda19b92yf5ae1b5734133d41@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <132009.97422.qm@web56615.mail.re3.yahoo.com> I think the database went down. I couldn't log in to admin earlier. Also, Chihaya emailed me to let me know that her article at had disappeared. She was right - when I went there I got a blank page. I'm not certain, but I think this glitch occurs when someone trys to post a comment while the DB is down. It can be fixed by going into admin and hiding and then unhiding the "disappeared" article - I've restored it. Nigel Lachlan Musicman wrote: Hola, the newswire of melb indy has disappeared? Also, unfortunately, due to unforseen University commitments, I'm going to have to withdraw from my involvement with the radio show, which I regret, but I don't make the uni timetable. Should be able to come back on board after June/July. cheers L. -- READ CAREFULLY. By accepting this email you agree, on behalf of your employer, to release me from all obligations and waivers arising from any and all NON-NEGOTIATED agreements, licenses, terms-of-service, shrinkwrap, clickwrap, browsewrap, confidentiality, non-disclosure, non-compete and acceptable use policies ("BOGUS AGREEMENTS") that I have entered into with your employer, its partners, licensors, agents and assigns, in perpetuity, without prejudice to my ongoing rights and privileges. You further represent that you have the authority to release me from any BOGUS AGREEMENTS on behalf of your employer. http://www.ReasonableAgreement.org _______________________________________________ imc-melbourne-work mailing list imc-melbourne-work at indymedia.org.au http://lists.indymedia.org.au/mailman/listinfo/imc-melbourne-work Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.indymedia.org.au/pipermail/imc-melbourne-eds/attachments/20070311/09dcd8c9/attachment.htm From harrytuttle123 at yahoo.com Sun Mar 11 11:15:45 2007 From: harrytuttle123 at yahoo.com (harry tuttle) Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 04:15:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Imc-melbourne-eds] proposed - David Hicks Vigils Continue In-Reply-To: <132009.97422.qm@web56615.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <759973.92388.qm@web62403.mail.re1.yahoo.com> David Hicks Vigils Continue http://www.melbourne.indymedia.org/images/hicks2 The campaign in support of Davis Hicks continued on Friday with a vigil outside the Department of Foreign Affairs in Melbourne. Those present heard from Lynne Alison on the recent report from the Law Council of Australia questioning the legality of Hick?s detention and from Civil Rights Defence on the 'opportunism' and 'hypocrisy' of politicians who have suddenly realised they are on the wrong side of public opinion on this issue. [Full Story]

[Civil Rights Defence Address | Government declares it owes no legal duty to Hicks] ____________________________________________________________________________________ Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545367 From changeling_au_2004 at yahoo.com.au Sun Mar 11 12:35:38 2007 From: changeling_au_2004 at yahoo.com.au (Nigel W) Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 23:35:38 +1100 (EST) Subject: [Imc-melbourne-eds] proposed - David Hicks Vigils Continue In-Reply-To: <759973.92388.qm@web62403.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <504140.27086.qm@web56612.mail.re3.yahoo.com> One thing - there's a typo "Davis Hicks". I'm glad to see that "opportunism" and "hypocrisy" are in quotes, 'cos I really doubt that's got much if anything to do with it. As unjustly as Hicks has been treated, has anyone stopped to question why so much energy has gone into helping this one Aussie dickhead who *voluntarily* went to fight with fascistic forces like the KLA and the Taliban, while energy devoted to refugees fleeing forces such as the Taliban who are still languishing in various Aussie Guantanimos seems to have all but dissipated. Food for thought, I hope....... Nigel ps: To see what NATO and their KLA puppets have done to Kosovo, see harry tuttle wrote: David Hicks Vigils Continue http://www.melbourne.indymedia.org/images/hicks2 The campaign in support of Davis Hicks continued on Friday with a vigil outside the Department of Foreign Affairs in Melbourne. Those present heard from Lynne Alison on the recent report from the Law Council of Australia questioning the legality of Hick?s detention and from Civil Rights Defence on the 'opportunism' and 'hypocrisy' of politicians who have suddenly realised they are on the wrong side of public opinion on this issue. [Full Story] [Civil Rights Defence Address | Government declares it owes no legal duty to Hicks] ____________________________________________________________________________________ Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545367 _______________________________________________ Imc-melbourne-eds mailing list Imc-melbourne-eds at indymedia.org.au http://lists.indymedia.org.au/mailman/listinfo/imc-melbourne-eds Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.indymedia.org.au/pipermail/imc-melbourne-eds/attachments/20070311/d97e58ad/attachment.htm From tirin at takver.com Mon Mar 12 07:33:49 2007 From: tirin at takver.com (takver) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 02:33:49 -0500 Subject: [Imc-melbourne-eds] proposed - David Hicks Vigils Continue Message-ID: <200703120733.l2C7XnbA011809@apollo.linuxengine.net> Looks okay to post. Nigel, the vigils aren't just about David Hicks and the morality of his actions, they are about "justice" and due process, and the erosion of those basic legal defences by the war on terror. Now I know the arguments that the legal system is never fair and usually costs a lot of money to get a semblance of justice. But even this has been denied David Hicks. Personally I think he should be brought back to Australia and charged with serving in another nation's military forces. Then all those people who serve in foreign military forces while being Australian citizens can also be charged, especially those who serve in the Israeli Defence forces. ;) One of the reasons this charge will never happen. Takver > > One thing - there's a typo "Davis Hicks". > I'm glad to see that "opportunism" and "hypocrisy" are in quotes, 'cos I really doubt that's got much if anything to do with it. > As unjustly as Hicks has been treated, has anyone stopped to question why so much energy has gone into helping this one Aussie dickhead who *voluntarily* went to fight with fascistic forces like the KLA and the Taliban, while energy devoted to refugees fleeing forces such as the Taliban who are still languishing in various Aussie Guantanimos seems to have all but dissipated. > Food for thought, I hope....... > > Nigel > > ps: To see what NATO and their KLA puppets have done to Kosovo, see > > > > harry tuttle wrote: David Hicks Vigils Continue > > http://www.melbourne.indymedia.org/images/hicks2 > > The campaign in support of Davis Hicks continued on > Friday with a vigil outside the Department of Foreign > Affairs in Melbourne. Those present heard from Lynne > Alison on the recent report from the Law Council of > Australia questioning the > legality of Hick?s detention and from Civil Rights > Defence on the 'opportunism' and 'hypocrisy' of > politicians who have suddenly realised they are on the > wrong side of public opinion on this issue. [Full > Story] > > [Civil > Rights Defence Address | Government declares it owes no legal duty to > Hicks] > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate > in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A. > http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545367 > _______________________________________________ > Imc-melbourne-eds mailing list > Imc-melbourne-eds at indymedia.org.au > http://lists.indymedia.org.au/mailman/listinfo/imc-melbourne-eds > > > > Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com > -- in solidarity Takver From tirin at takver.com Sun Mar 18 13:54:28 2007 From: tirin at takver.com (takver) Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2007 08:54:28 -0500 Subject: [Imc-melbourne-eds] Proposed: Antiwar Protests commemorate Iraq Invasion Message-ID: <200703181354.l2IDsShf000536@apollo.linuxengine.net> comments? -- in solidarity Takver Image: http://melbourne.indymedia.org/images/20070317Melb_Antiwar.jpg Antiwar Protests commemorate Iraq Invasion Global protests on the weekend marked the 4th anniversary of the US invasion of Iraq. In Melbourne up to 1000 people gathered outside the State Library on Saturday and marched in a noisy protest through the city streets to the Headquarters of the Liberal Party. [Report | Photos 1, 2, Video]

Protests in Oceania also ocurred in Aotearoa, Sydney (Socialist Alliance Photos), Perth and Newcastle. Greenleft reported on protests across Australia. There were also numerous protests across the USA.

Takver: Anti-war protests in Melbourne Feb-March 2003 | Wikipedia: Protests against the Iraq war From tirin at takver.com Sat Mar 24 02:25:54 2007 From: tirin at takver.com (takver) Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 21:25:54 -0500 Subject: [Imc-melbourne-eds] Takver offline - others need to take up the slack Message-ID: <200703240225.l2O2PsX1005835@apollo.linuxengine.net> I'm on a dialup connection at home atm. Just doing emails. Others need to do site moderation and features. One of those problematic Telstra faults affecting my DSL connection (and everyone in my house). (2 and a half weeks now.) -- in solidarity Takver